2022/2023 variety questions and maybe answers

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Seven Bends
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#61

Post: # 61908Unread post Seven Bends
Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:53 pm

I've been enjoying this thread very much. Here are my questions, after spending many, many hours researching my MMMM haul:

Lebanon red slicer: Is this the "Lebanon" red tomato at Sand Hill Preservation, described as "Mid-season, Indeterminate, oblate, 2 to 4 oz. red tomatoes"?

Pink Princess: is this the tomato described as a sport of Honeydrop, a "gene pool tomato" that is not yet fully stable?

Sugar Cherry: is this the Solanum pimpinellifolium tomato listed at SSE as a large currant tomato 1/2" diam., orange-red in clusters of 12?

Lady Fingers: is this the same tomato as Lady's Fingers aka Damskye Palchiki? If so, I found conflicting information about what it's like. Lindalana described it at Tville under the "Lady Fingers" name as a "HUGE plant," very tall and vigorous. Other sources describe "Lady's Fingers" or "Damskye Palchiki" as determinate and only 2-3ft tall. Anyone know which is correct for the MMMM one?

Mary's Cherry: is this the same as Dwarf Mary's Cherry? Scooty was the seed source.

Genuwine F1: Is this original hybrid seed or saved seed? Just want to confirm, as the seeds look different from the other F1s I received.

Tormato says Elbonian Mudslinger definitely should be viewed as not stable; what is the stability level of these others?
Bacon Lettuce & This
Swoon
Miss Scarlet...
Heartthrob
Seek No Further Love Apple

Thanks to anyone who can help!

MissTee
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#62

Post: # 61913Unread post MissTee
Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:09 pm

Thank you @Scooty for the info on the pink cherry. I imagine if you shared it, it must be worth growing.

Thanks also for the tips on Grandee /Budenovka /Velmozha @habitat-gardener and @Toomanymatoes

The English-translated article was very helpful @Seven Bends (the French was imploding my brain as I have very foggy recollection of French class).

From the article, these details were gleaned about all three varieties:

Excellent hybrid of Siberian selection.
70 cm bush
Determinate
Light pink to dark red
Large heart 300 to 400 Gr
Sweet and bright taste
Harvest 105-110 days after seedling emerge (65- 70 DTM? / Early/Mid?)
Good disease resistance
High productivity
Possibility of long-term storage and suitability for transportation

Tatianas description of Budenovka - http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Budenovka. Notes it as semi-det, Russian heirloom, regular/wispy leaf, paste/slicer.

Tatianas description of Velmozha —
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Velmozha. Noted as a commercial pink heart from Russia.

Not sure if these are all the same variety or not, but I can expect a pinkish/red heart, determinate or semi-determinate that is early to mid- season. Sounds tasty!

Thanks again for the info,
T
Too many tomatoes, not enough time.

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HL2601
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#63

Post: # 61917Unread post HL2601
Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:27 pm

Here are three that I sent- they all have info written on the lime green neon paper inside the seed packets. I always use that color so you will know its mine if you have further questions :)

Shokoladnaja Sosulka ( Chocolate icicle)
is RL wispy, actually a Ukrainian tomato. Long paste/plum- excellent production. A winner, Part of the Icicle series.

Chang Li is grape shaped, cherry sized, paler yellow-never really ripens to deep orange. RL Sweet. My girls loved this one. Hard to find.

Carneal Tiger-aka Big Cheef Striped- A larger , prolific and fantastic multi color. R/O/Y I believe it was found by Bill jeffers and named for his friend who let him use his land to do grow outs. Just a great surprise this year, it will make an appearance next year as well.
Heide
Last edited by HL2601 on Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seven Bends
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#64

Post: # 61918Unread post Seven Bends
Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:30 pm

MissTee wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:35 pm Thank you all for the incredible selection of seeds. I will be growing for years, and years, and years! Thank you @Toomanymatoes, you and I have a lot of the same questions, and some of the holes in my spreadsheet are being filled.

Morumo / Moruno? de San Pablo

Thanks very much if anyone can share any more details: colour, fruit type/size, leaf type, plant growth, DTM, description/taste.
T
Moruno de San Pablo is featured in that booklet of traditional Spanish varieties I posted yesterday (in Spanish, though). There's a picture in the booklet. Here's the translated info I gathered from that booklet and two other sites:

Centro Zahoz: Tall variety with good production. Fruits of good size, dark in color, with purple tones, flattened and ribbed. Its abundant purple meat is juicy and very tasty, being sweeter than the red ones. Tomaten-forum: excellent, spicy, more sweetness, just great; good yield. Agricultores ecologicos en Las Herencias: large fruits, a sweet and intense flavor, an excellent aroma and a purple tone when ripe.

Nobody had any facts like DTM, fruit size, etc. "Moruno" means "Moorish" and can be used to mean "dark brown." One dictionary called it pejorative but the other sources didn't.

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HL2601
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#65

Post: # 61920Unread post HL2601
Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:43 pm

Here are three that I sent- they are on the lime green neon paper inside the seed packets. I always use that color so you will n=know its mine if you have further questions :)
Shokoladnaja Sosulka ( Chocolate icicle)
is RL wispy, actually a Ukrainian tomato. Long paste/plum- excellent production. A winner, Part of the Icicle series.

Chang Li is grape shaped, cherry sized, paler yellow-never really ripens to deep orange. RL Sweet. My girls loved this one. Hard to find.

Carneal Tiger-aka Big Cheef Striped- A larger , prolific and fantastic multi color. R/O/Y I believe it was found by Bill jeffers and named for his friend who let him use his land to do grow outs. Just a great surprise this year, it will make an appearance next year as well.
Heide

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Tormato
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#66

Post: # 61924Unread post Tormato
Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:38 pm

Chang Li came into the swap labeled as a "yellow pear" type. I had to trial it to see if I would ban it, like the one and only Yellow Pear. CL is on double secret probation. My grow out produced mostly teardrop-shaped fruit, with a few fat blunt almost pear shapes thrown in. The donor agreed as to a teardrop shape.

Why are the ones that produce bucketloads the ones that aren't so good?

MissTee
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#67

Post: # 61926Unread post MissTee
Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:41 pm

Re: Moruno de San Pablo

Thank you @Seven Bends for the translation. Typically, we don't get taught Spanish in school in Canada. :)
Last edited by MissTee on Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Too many tomatoes, not enough time.

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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#68

Post: # 61928Unread post Tormato
Sun Jan 30, 2022 7:26 pm

Seven Bends wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:53 pm I've been enjoying this thread very much. Here are my questions, after spending many, many hours researching my MMMM haul:

Lebanon red slicer: Is this the "Lebanon" red tomato at Sand Hill Preservation, described as "Mid-season, Indeterminate, oblate, 2 to 4 oz. red tomatoes"?

Pink Princess: is this the tomato described as a sport of Honeydrop, a "gene pool tomato" that is not yet fully stable?

Sugar Cherry: is this the Solanum pimpinellifolium tomato listed at SSE as a large currant tomato 1/2" diam., orange-red in clusters of 12?

Lady Fingers: is this the same tomato as Lady's Fingers aka Damskye Palchiki? If so, I found conflicting information about what it's like. Lindalana described it at Tville under the "Lady Fingers" name as a "HUGE plant," very tall and vigorous. Other sources describe "Lady's Fingers" or "Damskye Palchiki" as determinate and only 2-3ft tall. Anyone know which is correct for the MMMM one?

Mary's Cherry: is this the same as Dwarf Mary's Cherry? Scooty was the seed source.

Genuwine F1: Is this original hybrid seed or saved seed? Just want to confirm, as the seeds look different from the other F1s I received.

Tormato says Elbonian Mudslinger definitely should be viewed as not stable; what is the stability level of these others?
Bacon Lettuce & This
Swoon
Miss Scarlet...
Heartthrob
Seek No Further Love Apple

Thanks to anyone who can help!
Elbonian Mudslinger - is basically an F3, and I'm looking for the tell-tale belly button blossom end on enough of the fruit (like the pic, which is somewhere here at T'junction).
Pink Princess - I haven't heard, yet, of an off-type from people in the swap.
Lady Fingers/Damskye Palchiki - From what I've read, it can get huge (wide? bushy?) in a greenhouse, not so much outside.
Genuwine F1 - It came in a commercial seed pack as an F1.
Bacon Lettuce and This - It's about an F7 or F8, so as close to stable as it gets.
Swoon - About an F6 or F7, a RL variant last year was the first off-type that I've heard of.
Miss Scarlet - This one is a total mess. It's supposed to be a RL, many got RL and PL seedlings last year. Also different fruit shapes. I'm thinking that I inadvertently saved seed of an F1 natural cross that looked and tasted like Miss Scarlet, and then gave out F2 seed. Seed sent out this year was from a different pack, but unknown if the possible F2's are in it. Unless one is adventurous, cull out PL seedlings.
Hearttrob - about an F5 or F6, but could still throw something different.
SNFLA - stable, as I've never seen anything else in many years of many plants.

OhioGardener
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#69

Post: # 61934Unread post OhioGardener
Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:10 pm

Happygardener23 wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 5:14 pm
Toomanymatoes wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 1:18 pm Normally I record DTM, fruit color, fruit type (e.g., cherry, salad, slicer, oxheart, paste), leaf type, growth habit (det, semi-det or ind), average size in lbs, and country of origin. Sometimes I make notes of parental lineage. If it is an eastern European variety, I try to record the original name and translation as well.

A few I am struggling with:

Ocharovanie Kamnatniy (Is is just Ocharovanie?)
I see 2 more questions about varieties that originated with me and I'll answer both here:

Ocharovanie Komnatniy (original in Russian = Очарование Комнатный) is the correct name and translates to "Room Charm." The original seed source was GL Seeds, a Ukrainian commercial seed company, and I'll link to their information about the variety with a translation below. I didn't record the DTM, but it was ultra-early for me with the 85-90 days that GL claims probably being days from direct sowing. It ripened about the time of Jagodka if that helps and was about 18 inches tall, determinate, regular leaf. Fruits are cherry sized and a brilliant dark pink-purple color.

https://glseeds.com.ua/semena-tomata-ocharovanie/
"Amazingly beautiful early ripe (85-90 days) variety. The plant is 25-30 cm high, with small corrugated leaves, everything is strewn with small smooth fruits of pale pink color, weighing 30-40 g, of excellent sweet taste. For growing on window sills, balconies, loggias, in open ground in flowerbeds, as a border plant, as well as in flowerpots and flower pots at room conditions. For whole-fruit consumption, decoration of dishes and canning."

Premus - Ultra-early, semi-det, very large RL rugose leaves, tree-stem dwarf, 14 – 16 in. Heavy set of 2”red slicers w/ balanced flavor over several weeks. Given to biology student, Debbie Premus, in Moscow, Russia in 1993 w/o original name. Described as a tomato for balconies in-ground, or low tunnels by Tatiana Mikhaevich, the Belorussian biologist who gifted it to Debbie. Container-friendly.
Debbie

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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#70

Post: # 61936Unread post Toomanymatoes
Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:45 pm

Thanks for everyone's help on those varieties!
Seven Bends wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:53 pm

Sugar Cherry: is this the Solanum pimpinellifolium tomato listed at SSE as a large currant tomato 1/2" diam., orange-red in clusters of 12?

Thanks to anyone who can help!
If this is the one I sent in, I purchased the seeds from a vendor here in Canada (Mandy's Greenhouse). I am not sure if it is the same as the SSE listing. It does not sound like they are the same.

This was the vendors description:
"For reasons I can’t answer, has fallen through the cracks and never been listed. And the more I look, the less I can find on this wee one! Seems to have started hanging around our place since 2012! Its like an “in-be-tweener”, not like a Midget, not like a Sugar Lump. That is all I can tell, except…its darn tasty and it has thicker skin and won’t crack."

I attached some screenshots from my video log. Hope they help.

Sugar_Cherry-003.jpg
Sugar_Cherry-002.jpg
Sugar_Cherry-001.jpg
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Seven Bends
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#71

Post: # 61938Unread post Seven Bends
Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:25 pm

Toomanymatoes wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 8:45 pm Thanks for everyone's help on those varieties!
Seven Bends wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:53 pm

Sugar Cherry: is this the Solanum pimpinellifolium tomato listed at SSE as a large currant tomato 1/2" diam., orange-red in clusters of 12?

Thanks to anyone who can help!
If this is the one I sent in, I purchased the seeds from a vendor here in Canada (Mandy's Greenhouse). I am not sure if it is the same as the SSE listing. It does not sound like they are the same.

This was the vendors description:
"For reasons I can’t answer, has fallen through the cracks and never been listed. And the more I look, the less I can find on this wee one! Seems to have started hanging around our place since 2012! Its like an “in-be-tweener”, not like a Midget, not like a Sugar Lump. That is all I can tell, except…its darn tasty and it has thicker skin and won’t crack."

I attached some screenshots from my video log. Hope they help.
They're very pretty and look like a good producer. Definitely bigger than a currant tomato; maybe 3/4 the size of Sungold? Thanks for posting the pictures!

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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#72

Post: # 61942Unread post Scooty
Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:14 am

MissTee wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:09 pm Thank you @Scooty for the info on the pink cherry. I imagine if you shared it, it must be worth growing.
Actually, I am rather picky with cherries. Of the hundreds and hundreds I have tried. I probably still like SunGold F1 the most.
Seven Bends wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:53 pm Mary's Cherry: is this the same as Dwarf Mary's Cherry? Scooty was the seed source.
Yes. As far as I am aware unless someone else has beaten me to it.... @Tormato @Ginger2778 @Barb_FL and maybe besides Craig. I probably have tried the most out of all the dwarf tomato projects (final releases not breeding selections). I was up to 70%+ of all the releases prior to many of the 2021/2022 releases.

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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#73

Post: # 61946Unread post habitat-gardener
Mon Jan 31, 2022 1:03 am

The Lady Fingers I grew from last year's swap was 4-6 ft. high and had unremarkable tomatoes.

I grew a RL and a PL Miss Scarlet last year. The RL produced nothing. The PL produced a small handful of currant-size tomatoes.

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Tormato
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#74

Post: # 61955Unread post Tormato
Mon Jan 31, 2022 6:27 am

Scooty wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:14 am
MissTee wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 5:09 pm Thank you @Scooty for the info on the pink cherry. I imagine if you shared it, it must be worth growing.
Actually, I am rather picky with cherries. Of the hundreds and hundreds I have tried. I probably still like SunGold F1 the most.
Seven Bends wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:53 pm Mary's Cherry: is this the same as Dwarf Mary's Cherry? Scooty was the seed source.
Yes. As far as I am aware unless someone else has beaten me to it.... @Tormato @Ginger2778 @Barb_FL and maybe besides Craig. I probably have tried the most out of all the dwarf tomato projects (final releases not breeding selections). I was up to 70%+ of all the releases prior to many of the 2021/2022 releases.
Not me. I've tried only about half a dozen Dwarfs, and about a half dozen "Dwarf hunting" plants.

I agree with you on SunGold, and that's why I trial about one other variety a year.

Pink beefsteaks and hearts of various colors make up about 98% of my garden in a typical year. About every three or four years, I'll trial about a dozen very early determinates in an attempt to find just one that I like.

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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#75

Post: # 61965Unread post root_grow
Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:51 am

Grandee is one that I sent in, and it came to me from FarmerShawn's distribution of Carolyn's seed collection. On his spreadsheet someone had entered "aka Velmozha", I don't know who left that note or whether it's accurate and can't confirm any of the other speculations about name changes or origins either, it came to me only as "Grandee". It's RL, around 2-3' tall, produces an abundance of really delicious medium sized pink hearts. I haven't really been impressed by many other heart tomatoes, they tend to be pretty bland from my gardens, but I expect I'll be growing this one for many years.

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steve ok
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#76

Post: # 61971Unread post steve ok
Mon Jan 31, 2022 12:27 pm

root_grow wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 10:51 am Grandee is one that I sent in
root_grow, Did you miss this Grandee link? https://gardenlux-en.designluxpro.com/s ... tzyvy.html

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root_grow
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#77

Post: # 61979Unread post root_grow
Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:45 pm

@steve ok I saw the link, I just thought people might like to know where the seed in the swap came from, what information came with it, and might even be interested in my experience growing it since as far as I know none of the 3 varieties named in that article are commonly grown here if they're even available...

Grandee stood out among the 150-some varieties I grew last year and I sent in a lot because it deserves to be grown more.

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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#78

Post: # 62039Unread post GoDawgs
Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:29 am


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Tormato
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#79

Post: # 62040Unread post Tormato
Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:47 am

root_grow wrote: Mon Jan 31, 2022 2:45 pm @steve ok I saw the link, I just thought people might like to know where the seed in the swap came from, what information came with it, and might even be interested in my experience growing it since as far as I know none of the 3 varieties named in that article are commonly grown here if they're even available...

Grandee stood out among the 150-some varieties I grew last year and I sent in a lot because it deserves to be grown more.
And, this reminds me to post more about KYSO (Knock your Socks Off) and Desert Island (the one and only tomato you'd take there) categories for the next swap. Some participants mostly want these varieties. Perhaps I should start a thread?

Seven Bends
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Re: 2021 variety questions and maybe answers

#80

Post: # 62055Unread post Seven Bends
Tue Feb 01, 2022 10:42 am

GoDawgs wrote: Tue Feb 01, 2022 7:29 am Another link for Grandee/Velmozha:

https://ke.f-interviews.com/1710-cold-r ... iptio.html
Great link, thanks! From this article, it sounds like Grandee/Velmozha are the same, but they are not Budenovka: "Some gardeners sincerely consider the Nobleman a kind of Budenovka tomato, because outwardly they are really similar. However, the creators of the variety are convinced that there is not a drop of truth in this assumption."

Other parts of interest to me, because of my geography:
  • Amateur gardeners successfully cultivate the Noble both in the central regions of Russia and in the Volga region, but in the very south of the country the variety really feels uncomfortable.
  • increased moodiness to the composition of the soil: the nobleman consumes a lot of nutrients and does not feel well in heavy soil
So, probably not a good choice for the hot, humid weather and clay soils of Virginia.

I was wondering why the article kept referring to "the Nobleman" and "the Noble," and then I found a TomatoEden description of Velmozha that says the name means "Dignitary" in Russian.

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