Container mix with leaf mold, compost

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lee53011
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Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#1

Post: # 61243Unread post lee53011
Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:33 pm

I'm looking to see what kind of container mix I can make without adding anything that is not on my property. I have tons of compost and leaf mold. I use probably 300 gallons in containers, so it is not economically feasable to buy a bunch of perlite or coconut coir, etc. Any ideas? I have grown in all compost, and it worked, but it held too much water.

greenthumbomaha
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#2

Post: # 61245Unread post greenthumbomaha
Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:42 pm

I haven't tried this, but do you have any sticks to create air pockets in the compost? Not sure if it would help, but it sounds like you may have that resource readily available.

- Lisa

zeuspaul
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#3

Post: # 61261Unread post zeuspaul
Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:22 am

Do you have any coarse sand or fine gravel? I need about 400 gallons but I reuse it every year. Over time the volume decreases. I have an old pile of chipped tree trimmings that I sift from the bottom of the pile. There are a lot of small pieces of aged wood in addition to the composted trimmings which help with drainage. Also adding some volume with gravel that I sift to the size of coarse sand or slightly larger in lieu of using perlite for drainage. Also crushed egg shells, used coffee grounds and tea leaves.

Compost and leaf mold would be very good with coarse sand or very fine gravel for drainage.

lee53011
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#4

Post: # 61285Unread post lee53011
Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:18 am

@zeuspaul I do have about 50 gallons of used potting soil. I could probably get fresh water beach sand, not sure if that is the same as other sand. Or what percentage of each would be good. I could probably spring for a 2 cf bag of perlite if I have to. That is available at Home depot for around $16. I prefer to use what I can get without being dependent on a store.

zeuspaul
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#5

Post: # 61291Unread post zeuspaul
Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:49 am

Sharp sand is preferred. Beach sand is not sharp and is probably very fine. If it isn't too small it might be useable.

Do you have a sieve? Try sifting your soil to see what you get. Do you have cat litter? If it is clay chips it could be used. You have to check it first by soaking in water to make sure it doesn't turn to mush.

2 CF of bark should be available at HD for about $5. You need the small stuff and the quality varies a lot. You need to inspect it first.

bjbebs
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#6

Post: # 61294Unread post bjbebs
Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:22 pm

If you need 300 plus gallons of mix every year I would try to find sources for manure. Horse manure or mushroom compost would be the base for the mix. I'm not talking a wheelbarrow or two but many tons. If you find a source but don't have the means to haul, get it delivered. It still will be cheaper than retail.

You will never have too much. Along with leaves, compost and decomposed wood chips you have what you need.

Not sure what you mean when you say the straight compost did not drain well. Even without ammendments this should drain very well. True leaf mold takes years to make. I have dedicated leaf piles that sit for 3-5 years before using in my mixes.

Also, these mixes get used up quickly during the growing season and your containers may need to be topped off.

What you are really trying to do is build garden soil in a container. Native soils, if available, can also be added to the mix.

lee53011
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#7

Post: # 61296Unread post lee53011
Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:32 pm

@zeuspaul I have an unlimited supply of wood chips that I make on my property. Many get mixed into the compost pile, especially in Fall when I get about 200 pumpkins. I found building sand that says it is coarse. I have a motorized 1/2" trammel I built to sift my compost. I make a lot of compost! About how much sand do you mix with the compost? Equal parts by volume or something else?

lee53011
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#8

Post: # 61297Unread post lee53011
Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:35 pm

@bjbebs I have plenty of compost and leaf mold. I make over 20 yards of compost a year, as well as 4 or 5 yards of leaf mulch. My problem is finding something to mix with it for better drainage. I think I have settled on coarse builders sand, now just trying to see how much to add.

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Tormato
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#9

Post: # 61298Unread post Tormato
Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:46 pm

Do you have soil?

lee53011
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#10

Post: # 61299Unread post lee53011
Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:51 pm

@Tormato I do in my raised beds. It's considered sandy loam in my soil test, with 10% organic matter and high in Potassium and Phosphorus.

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Tormato
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#11

Post: # 61302Unread post Tormato
Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:19 pm

lee53011 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:51 pm @Tormato I do in my raised beds. It's considered sandy loam in my soil test, with 10% organic matter and high in Potassium and Phosphorus.
I started with sandy loam, no need to add sand, and mixed in 50% by volume (mostly oak) well aged leaf mold. My soil is very acidic, pH likely in the 5s, but the tomatoes taste great. If I get around to it, I'll try to raise the pH by about .25 of a point a year.

Plain sandy loam can (rarely) have its advantages. Last year was so wet, that my one new bed with nothing added did the best, as it had the best drainage.

Mr recommendation would be to have (at least) two mix formulas, and observe the same variety growing in each.

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bower
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#12

Post: # 61304Unread post bower
Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:37 pm

I will cast a vote for wood chips or small sticks. This will give you aeration, which is what you need in a mainly compost mix. I can only imagine that compost would not drain well if it is too fine. If the product you're making is very tiny particles then I could see it lacking the structure that it needs.
Maybe sift with something less fine? Or add the wood chips, sticks or chopped straw from your own property. Where I'm situated, I often use coarse chopped kelp for the better aerated structure but it breaks down a bit too fast. My unsifted compost has a lot of small sticks/ herb straw in it, and that also improves the structure. Well rotted horse manure is the best I've seen for overall structure improvement for water retention and made it possible to grow tomatoes in smaller containers.
I have used sand in a container mix, only for peppers. Aloe is another plant that benefits from a bit of sand. I didn't measure but nowhere near 50-50 for sand. More like 1:10.
AgCan Zone 5a/USDA zone 4
temperate marine climate
yearly precip 61 inches/1550 mm

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Toomanymatoes
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#13

Post: # 61307Unread post Toomanymatoes
Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:32 pm

Never used it, but rice hulls/husks are an alternative to perlite. Not sure if that is something you can get in your area for free/cheap or not. I know it is used in the brewing industry for filtering.

zeuspaul
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#14

Post: # 61311Unread post zeuspaul
Sun Jan 23, 2022 3:51 pm

@lee53011 as @Bower posted perhaps 10:1.

I would work on using your wood chips and your sifter. I don't know what a trammel is but 1/2 inch or smaller chips should be ok. What size containers are you using? Can you separate out the wood chips so you can adjust the ratio? Raw wood chips will rob nitrogen. It would be best if you could condition them first.

Your compost sounds almost good as is. If you are not getting good drainage reduce the amount of the fines relative to the small wood chips. You may need to mitigate the wood chips with extra nitrogen fertilizer. Course builders sand could be a good addition, the courser the better just don't over do it. The ratio is going to depend on your compost-wood chip combination and the builder sand. I wouldn't use more than 5:1, probably somewhere between 10:1 and 5:1. I don't measure, I mix and blend until it looks right to me.

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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#15

Post: # 61323Unread post zendog
Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:15 pm

How long do you keep things potted? Is this just for annual grows are they staying in their pots longer? The longer they're in the pots, the more breakdown of larger organic matter and the more compaction from rain, watering, etc. so that can make a big difference in what you need.

I don't like hardwood chips in a mix, since they are more likely to tie up nitrogen as they break down, but pine fines are great in a mix - basically small pieces of pine bark mulch. I get it for around $5 for a 3cf bag here. It doesn't break down as fast so won't be as likely to tie up nitrogen and that also means the drainage stays open since it isn't all decomposing. I find it works for about 2 years for my potted figs before it starts getting too dense, which is time for me to root prune and re-pot them anyway.

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bower
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#16

Post: # 61325Unread post bower
Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:24 pm

That's a good point about the wood chips. Small sticks/broken straw from my unsifted compost are already breaking down, and don't affect N in a noticeable way, as fresh chips would do.
AgCan Zone 5a/USDA zone 4
temperate marine climate
yearly precip 61 inches/1550 mm

lee53011
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#17

Post: # 61446Unread post lee53011
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:22 pm

zendog wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:15 pm How long do you keep things potted? Is this just for annual grows are they staying in their pots longer? The longer they're in the pots, the more breakdown of larger organic matter and the more compaction from rain, watering, etc. so that can make a big difference in what you need.

I don't like hardwood chips in a mix, since they are more likely to tie up nitrogen as they break down, but pine fines are great in a mix - basically small pieces of pine bark mulch. I get it for around $5 for a 3cf bag here. It doesn't break down as fast so won't be as likely to tie up nitrogen and that also means the drainage stays open since it isn't all decomposing. I find it works for about 2 years for my potted figs before it starts getting too dense, which is time for me to root prune and re-pot them anyway.
I use them for vegetables in grow bags or 5 gallon buckets. So they are only in there for maybe 6 months.

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JRinPA
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Re: Container mix with leaf mold, compost

#18

Post: # 62203Unread post JRinPA
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:07 am

lee53011 wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:35 pm @bjbebs I have plenty of compost and leaf mold. I make over 20 yards of compost a year, as well as 4 or 5 yards of leaf mulch. My problem is finding something to mix with it for better drainage. I think I have settled on coarse builders sand, now just trying to see how much to add.
Around here we can get 2 yds of perlite for a bit over $100, loaded in a big bag into your pickup. Well, we could get if for low $100. With the recent money printing rate it might be $200 now. But there are places to get wholesale perlite, vermiculite etc that is about 4-6x cheaper than the cheapest 4 cu ft bags I could buy at agway. Depends on how far you want to drive, or pay for a truck shipment.

For 20 yards a year I would want something from the property.

I have read of people using shredded styrofoam. I don't believe it would act anything like perlite, personally, other than the color, and lightweight when dry?

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