Fusarium and new raised beds

Everything About Tomatoes

Use old soil in new beds?

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No
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Yes
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Total votes: 5

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Cranraspberry
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#21

Post: # 86622Unread post Cranraspberry
Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:31 pm

@Seven Bends thank you so much for taking the time to write such a detailed answer, and for the link! I feel like I have a fairly decent grasp of what to do with warm weather crops, since we grew them last year (and had many issues that resulted in a steep learning curve!), but everything that has to do with succession planting and spring/fall is pretty fuzzy for me. Like the whole “put crop N in by date X so that harvest is done by the time crop O goes in on date Y” seems like next level math at this point. :)

And we are very new to gardening - my only experience was watching my grandma at our summer cabin growing up, and my husband has even less experience than that. This past summer was our first season. We were lucky enough to get on the community garden waitlist before the covid craziness hit, I think now the wait is much longer than the two years we had.
Small community garden plot in zone 7 (DC area)

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Cranraspberry
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#22

Post: # 86624Unread post Cranraspberry
Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:50 pm

@zeuspaul thanks for chiming in! Yes, I absolutely understand that fusarium spores must be everywhere - not to mention the fact that we’re using tools (shovels, wheelbarrows etc) that are shared amongst all the gardeners, so it’s pretty much a given that all diseases that we have in this area are present. My thinking was a three prong approach: 1. fresh soil to lower the concentration of spores, 2. planting many resistant hybrids (still planting a few non-resistant varieties this year, since I figure this coming season will likely have the lowest disease pressure we’ll ever experience because of the new soil and very cold winter - had a stretch of single digit nights which is quite uncommon!) and 3. inoculating everything with Mycostop beginning at the seedling stage.

Our native soil is very wet clay. What I did was to dig down about a foot and work in quite a lot of leaves in the hopes that as they decompose and worms do their thing the soil underneath the raised beds will drain better and/or become more appealing for deep roots. I was surprised by how tiny the root systems on all our plants (except for okra) were, I’m guessing they really didn’t like that excess moisture.
The beds are 12” tall. The old raised beds were more like a frame - they started out at 6”, but sunk over the years and were probably closer to 4”. We had lots of issues with water retention and compaction, so trying to figure out a good balance of amendments that will make the soil in the taller beds dryer and more airy, but not TOO dry. Seems like quite the puzzle.
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Cranraspberry
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#23

Post: # 86625Unread post Cranraspberry
Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:55 pm

9FF9B89C-778E-4902-A42E-0E6DDBFBEA7C.jpeg
Finished filling the largest 4x10 bed today. We have 4 main beds: two 30”x80” beds dedicated to tomatoes which haven’t been filled yet, a large 4’x10’ bed that will have a mix of all sorts of vegetables and a 30”x96” bed for squash. The squash bed and 4x10 I filled by mixing existing soil with Leafgro (leaf compost) and peat and perlite, along with a sprinkle of garden lime for the peat. The soil looks really lovely, hopefully it will perform equally well, or at least better than our old soil.
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Cranraspberry
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#24

Post: # 86627Unread post Cranraspberry
Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:04 pm

And in case anyone is curious, this is how we started out last year.
16465357-4263-42E1-BF1D-699C481606F3.jpeg
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zeuspaul
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#25

Post: # 86634Unread post zeuspaul
Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:17 pm

Sand is a good amendment for clay soil to improve drainage. (builders or other sharp sand not beach sand)

Many organic fertilizers have microbes. Espoma has some good products. Many use Tomato-tone. I use Garden-tone because I can find a better price.
https://www.espoma.com/product/garden-tone/#tab2

I also use Kellogg Organic Tomato Vegetable and Herb Fertilizer
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Kellogg-Gar ... /204701382

I mix a little Espoma Bio-tone in my starting mix.

The Ultimate Starter Fertilizer with both Endo & Ecto Mycorrhizae
https://www.espoma.com/product/bio-tone-starter-plus/

I also have a water soluble myco product which I add to the start before planting. I can't say it has made a difference. I use the fungi products because others have recommended them.
myco.png
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#26

Post: # 87274Unread post Cranraspberry
Fri Jan 20, 2023 2:51 pm

After much back and forth (and purchasing and returning a 4 cu ft bag of vermiculite) I decided to do a bean test on the Lowe’s garden soil and so far it’s looking good.

Here’s the problem: my only experience is with the water logged clay that we were working with last year, and I think I’ve figured out how to amend that kind of soil. But since the tomato beds aren’t getting any clay, my concern is how to avoid a mix that leans too dry vs too wet. Attaching some photos of the soil and I’d love to hear what kind of ratios you’d do if you were working with a product like this. My thinking is about 40% Leafgro (really lovely local leaf/grass compost), 30% Lowes “garden soil”, 20% peat moss/coir and a bit of pine fines and perlite. I also have four bags of the absurdly priced Coast of Maine lobster compost that I was thinking of working in in the top half.
So basically for every 2 shovelfuls of Leafgro I’d do 1.5 shovelfuls of “garden soil”, 1 of peat and a large handful of fines and perlite. Does that sound about right, or would you do it differently?
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JRinPA
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#27

Post: # 93751Unread post JRinPA
Sun Apr 02, 2023 11:21 am

I just did a search for crop rotation and hit this thread which I generally would not have looked at since I don't consider Fusarium as a problem here. So I am late but I have some comments.

Water logged clay. We have clay here, but it is good soil. It does pack hard, and then when dry in the summer it will crack. They key for me is to really avoid, as much as possible, any roto-tilling and walking on the beds. It is hard to avoid for potatoes but I have generally regretted the few times I have tilled. The soil gets beat up tin to small pieces and then compacts and sinks through the year, especially if walked on.
What I try to do, rather than till, is to use a broadfork to aerate. For building a new raised bed, I cut and flip sod if it is lawn, fertilize, broadfork, then build up the bed with compost, yr old horse manure, peat, perlite. Each year I like to add more compost and top with shredded leaves. Before each planting I broadfork again (much easier after the first time) and sometimes re-fertilize . Some years end with a cover crop, or winter covered with black plastic row cover. Every other year or so I will double dig and lay in some fish directly and recover, trying not to break up the soil.

My compost is a mix of garden compost, composted fish, and also some landscaper yard waste compost. I don't deal with bags of unknown/shipped source "compost", "mulch" or "garden soil". I have avoided that complication. The only bags I buy are straight perlite, vermiculite, peat moss. Though admittedly the landscape compost is an unknown yard source and I have found plenty of oddities such as gloves and small tools. Plenty of plant tags. I seem to remember a 5 hps briggs muffler...but it is generally good black 5 year compost. I'm fortunate enough to know a guy that knows a guy and get scoops dropped in my truck bed for free once a year.

How that relates to you beds, well, for sure I would try to broadfork. That is the foundation to build on in my opinion. The roots need to get down into that clay for water and they need air at the same time. And keep trying to develop good sources for compost and shred leaves each fall and cover the beds with them.

For fish compost, you can make very, very nutritious fish fertilizer in you back yard in a 5 gal bucket with a tight lid. It is not pleasant, and will take most of the summer, but is basically free. With the lid on, you won't smell it. It is a anaerobic process, not like a compost pile. I would have to look up the specifics as I have not done it for a few years, but basically it is fish/fish heads/fish guts in a bucket filled with water and ... maybe a little sugar? Fillet some panfish and throw the rest in, and keep adding to it. Even if you don't fish, some neighbors surely do. Seal it and keep it in the sun for the summer to heat up and break down into a disgusting yet nutrient rich sludge. Fertilizer is supposed to stink, lol. Dress your beds with it in the fall. Once spread, the smell airs off quick enough. Tough for me to say how comm garden friendly it would be...I could get away with it at my comm garden, this is farm country, but it sounds like your comm garden has some HOA types...

It is a process to build your soil, and you should expect it to a take a few years to make it great.

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#28

Post: # 93753Unread post JRinPA
Sun Apr 02, 2023 12:06 pm

@Seven Bends you put up some great posts. I think we garden quite a bit the same way, and we are close enough in location that I see a lot of parallels with your findings of success and failure. I took a look at that VT info and need to keep that to refer to, as much of it applies here.

@Paulf I was wondering what your process is for sanitizing trellis? Particularly CRW cages. I think you use huge cages, right?

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#29

Post: # 93771Unread post Paulf
Sun Apr 02, 2023 2:54 pm

[quote=@Paulf I was wondering what your process is for sanitizing trellis? Particularly CRW cages. I think you use huge cages, right?
[/quote]

I had two methods for sanitization. At first I confiscated the kids wading pool, filled it most of the way with water and dumped a gallon of bleach in. The cages fit perfectly and they got rolled around, pulled out and dried.

Lately I have used a garden sprayer with 10-20% bleach solution and spray the cages to soaking wet. They say 10% is good enough but I use a higher percentage just make sure.

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#30

Post: # 93787Unread post MissS
Sun Apr 02, 2023 4:59 pm

I have found that for me, the best way to retain moisture in soil it to use a 4" layer of organic mulch. This can be wood chips, grass clippings, leaves, straw or whatever else you can find. It works very well and feeds the soil as it breaks down.
~ Patti ~

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