Tomato seed longevity outdoors

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Shule
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Location: SW Idaho, USA

Tomato seed longevity outdoors

#1

Post: # 55687Unread post Shule
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:24 pm

I've been wondering what causes tomato seeds to reliably go inviable after about a year when they're outside in/on the soil. Any ideas? Why just one year--why not a few? Sometimes we probably get volunteers from more than a year ago, but it seems uncommon. Wonderberry seeds, on the other hand, they seem to last for years in the soil.

We get plenty of tomato volunteers the season directly after the fruits grow, though.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Shule
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Re: Tomato seed longevity outdoors

#2

Post: # 55688Unread post Shule
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:33 pm

I'm thinking maybe they just get too close to sprouting the first year, and then they rot if they don't fully sprout. Maybe worms, birds, and other creatures eat them.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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ddsack
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Re: Tomato seed longevity outdoors

#3

Post: # 55710Unread post ddsack
Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:09 am

I'm guessing that all viable seed that are in favorable ground conditions will sprout the first year. If they were tilled in too deep, they'd never make it above ground. Tomato seeds hydrate pretty easily, so after being in damp dirt all summer, the ones that didn't sprout would probably be killed when the ground froze because they would not be as internally dry as the first fall, so like you said, too close to sprouting. I suppose if a few fell into a drier spot, on a board or something, and then later were brushed back into the dirt, they could sprout the 2nd year.

Bok choy seed seems to last forever, I let some go to seed and had volunteers for over 5 years, though I never grew plants in that spot again.

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pepperhead212
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Re: Tomato seed longevity outdoors

#4

Post: # 55712Unread post pepperhead212
Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:23 am

I have actually had volunteer tomatoes, and tomatillos sprout 2-3 years after they were in a particular area, where they hadn't been for a while, and I figured that the seeds were 'tilled down deep, and brought back up, when I'd finally get the volunteers. But then, I often wonder with these volunteers - if they are, say 6" down, why aren't they still sprouting, but dying, since they aren't close enough to break the surface? Is it just too cold for them? How can they sense that they are close enough to the surface? Some seeds actually need light to germinate, but that is not the norm.
Woodbury, NJ zone 7a/7b

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ddsack
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Re: Tomato seed longevity outdoors

#5

Post: # 55721Unread post ddsack
Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:04 pm

If they didn't freeze, but stayed deep enough in soil where temps were too cool for germination, seems like they could last a few years. Be like refrigerated storage? Our soil here easily freezes down to 12" or a couple feet most years. I imagine in NJ, especially with snow cover, the freeze line is not very deep so more likely seeds could survive.

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Shule
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Re: Tomato seed longevity outdoors

#6

Post: # 55731Unread post Shule
Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:48 pm

@pepperhead212 I think ddsack's right about the germination for deep seeds. Tomatoes won't sprout if they're not warm enough; they'll wait until it warms up. However, I haven't observed this phenomenon over more than one winter like you have! :)

@ddsack (and pepperhead212):

We don't usually have damp soil in the summer here unless we water it; it tends to be bone dry at least a couple inches down, if not further (from late May to about October, with some exceptional rainy days on occasion, the number of which depends on the year; the soil dries out pretty quickly after it rains, though, unless it rains a lot). But we do often have wet winters and springs. Thanks to using lots of black plastic*, we haven't tilled in a few years (except directly on the transplant spots when I dig the holes).

*We leave our black plastic out all year long. I think it's a myth that it lasts longer if you bring it in, personally; that just seems to make it more likely to rip or get holes in it from the effort. It doesn't get brittle quickly with the cold and sun like some plastic things do. Our black plastic is a fairly thin kind, but we've been using it since 2018, and it's still mostly fine (except the portions where we had our wood pile last winter; they got torn up quite a bit). We do need to get some more, though (we have some bare areas).

We get volunteers after the first winter just fine in areas both with and without black plastic, as long as the conditions are favorable for them to sprout (if they get wet enough in the spring at the right time).
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

slugworth
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Re: Tomato seed longevity outdoors

#7

Post: # 55814Unread post slugworth
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:30 am

All my rotten tomatoes this year I put in a 5 gal bucket with drainage.
I gave them a proper burial in a mound that will be dedicated to them to see what pops up next year.
I like to rototill in the spring before they pop up. If they are scattered I can't wait until summer to prepare the soil.
"A chiseled face,Just like Easter Island" :lol:

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