Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
- jmsieglaff
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Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
I'm curious if anyone has crossed a dwarf and microdwarf tomato and what the habit of the F1 was?
If it is simple genetics, it should be a dwarf, but if multiple genes are in play, perhaps the F1 is somewhere between the two?
I am asking because I made such a cross last year and I am considering to get a very early start (largely indoor) on an F1 to get some F2 seed, but if the habit will be full dwarf, then that is too large and I'll just grow the F1 this summer and save seeds for F2 then.
If it is simple genetics, it should be a dwarf, but if multiple genes are in play, perhaps the F1 is somewhere between the two?
I am asking because I made such a cross last year and I am considering to get a very early start (largely indoor) on an F1 to get some F2 seed, but if the habit will be full dwarf, then that is too large and I'll just grow the F1 this summer and save seeds for F2 then.
- wykvlvr
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
My understanding is that yes they should be dwarf. Generally what I have heard is micro x regular plant = regular, micro x dwarf = dwarf, micro x micro NORMALLY = micro but sometimes for some reason you get full sized plants. rare but it does happen.
Do far I have not managed a successful cross so can't say from experience.
Do far I have not managed a successful cross so can't say from experience.
Wyoming
Zone 5
Elevation : 6,063 ft
Climate : semi-arid
Avg annual rainfall = 16 inches
Zone 5
Elevation : 6,063 ft
Climate : semi-arid
Avg annual rainfall = 16 inches
- HL2601
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
I would do the grow out now!
It should be easy to tell very early if there are micros with those shorter, thick trunks. Cull those that aren't.. unless your goal is the dwarf and not the micro. Just my 2 cents.
It should be easy to tell very early if there are micros with those shorter, thick trunks. Cull those that aren't.. unless your goal is the dwarf and not the micro. Just my 2 cents.
- jmsieglaff
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
I’ve got a few seed sown just to verify the cross took (mother was PL and father RL so it should be RL). I guess I’ll let them grow for a while and pot one up. If it gets unmanageable under lights or by patio door later this winter I can always cull it or root a sucker and keep doing that—would be faster than starting from seed.
- Pippin
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
If the F1 plant starts getting too large, you can also prune and pinch it heavily, e.g. remove all side shoots and larger leaves and top the main shoot early. You don’t really need many tomatoes to get a lot of F2 seeds, 2-3 tomatoes from the first inflorescence could be enough. Of course, gently touching and poking the flowers daily when they open is important to secure good pollination and many seeds per tomato.
BR,
Pippin
Pippin
- jmsieglaff
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
Yeah pruning aggressively is a must given the light constraints I have. I've successfully fruited tomatoes indoors, I use a cheap electric toothbrush on inflorescence steams, works great!
- jmsieglaff
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
Well I sowed seeds on New Years Day and potted up one F1 plant. Today is 42 days from sowing and about 35 from seed emergence and the 3” plant under lights in a upper 50s basement is developing its first inflorescence. I certainly didn’t expect this from a dwarf x microdwarf cross in the F1, but here we are! Maybe I’ll have F2 seed to sow by mid spring!
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- HL2601
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
Looks terrific! Congrats on your new baby! And the the real fun begins with the F2s!
- MissS
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
Well that was easy. Well done! You will have this one stabilized in no time.
What types of characteristics are you looking for?
What types of characteristics are you looking for?
~ Patti ~
- jmsieglaff
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
With GWR/red cross I should have pretty much any color available, so I'm hoping for great tasting, different colored microdwarfs. Multiflora will be an option, but that won't be a requirement, just going to focus on flavor/color/micro habit.
- jmsieglaff
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
F1 doing well!!
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- Rockoe10
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
Very cool!
So it looks like it took after it's smaller parent. Is it a Determinate variety as well?
So it looks like it took after it's smaller parent. Is it a Determinate variety as well?
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Rob, ZONE 6A with 170 days between frost dates, Western Pennsylvania
Rob, ZONE 6A with 170 days between frost dates, Western Pennsylvania
- jmsieglaff
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
F1 is a cross between indeterminate dwarf and indeterminate multiflora microdwarf. So far I’d say it’s kind of between both parents, so I’m thinking the dwarf and micro dwarf genetics aren’t simple as when your cross a regular indeterminate with either. It is an indeterminate growth type plant like both parents, just kinda between dwarf and microdwarf size so far. We’ll see how big it gets. I’m hoping to find some different colored microdwarfs with excellent flavor in the F2.
- jmsieglaff
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
The F1 fruits are 16-21g, red, hints of anthocyanin (subtle trait in Red Raindrops).
The flavor was quite delicious! Rich tomato flavor, ample sweetness and acidity. Most of the fruits from the early plant will go to F2 seed. The rooted sucker will be grown in a bucket with the rest of the dwarf tomatoes. Fruits from that plant will go for more F2 seed saving but also plenty of eating.
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- bower
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
I don't pay a lot of attention to the taste of (nearly always red on its way to some other color) F1's, but I have noticed that F1 reds with one gf allele generally seem to be great tasting. Extra chlorophyll to convert to lycopene? IDK.
AgCan Zone 5a/USDA zone 4
temperate marine climate
yearly precip 61 inches/1550 mm
temperate marine climate
yearly precip 61 inches/1550 mm
- jmsieglaff
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Re: Crossing Dwarf and Microdwarf
Time to do a bit of hunting in the Giant Drops F2. Hopefully I can find some micros! Starting 48 fresh seeds, hoping to find 2-4 micros to grow out and get fruit for sampling by fall.
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