Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

Everything About Tomatoes
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Barmaley
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Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#1

Post: # 24486Unread post Barmaley
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:41 am

Just reading a wine review and I realized that in tomato world people just talk about sweet and sour. Are there more to the tomato taste sugar and acid? What about "touch of melon and plum aftertaste"? As a first year grower and all my tomatoes are still in a green of pink state and after investing about a hundred hours and hundreds of dollars I have trepidation of been disappointed when mine will produce. I bought some most expensive packs as Wegmans and while better they are far from the taste of tomatoes I remember I tried ones while visiting Moldova - ripe from a field, sitting in big piles on a side of the field waiting for a truck to bring them to processing plant for tomato paste production.

Are there varieties or techniques of growing which make taste more complex then just sweet?

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Labradors
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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#2

Post: # 24487Unread post Labradors
Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:51 am

It's mostly to do with the variety. The best thing to do is to figure out which varieties you prefer and then search for reviews of other varieties by people who like the same ones that you do.

Linda

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Barmaley
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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#3

Post: # 24491Unread post Barmaley
Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:09 pm

The problem with reviews what as many reviewers rate a variety as many contradictory opinions you see. I was searching for hours for a completely bullet-proof one and every time I found some people who don't like; sungold may be the only exception - the only reason to refuse it was cracking, not the taste. So far I could not find any medium size tomato which every connoisseur approved.

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#4

Post: # 24493Unread post Labradors
Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:22 pm

Duplicate
Last edited by Labradors on Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#5

Post: # 24495Unread post Labradors
Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:24 pm

Nobody really agrees! Everyone has different tastes and different growing conditions. Some people like acidic tomatoes, others sweet ones with one-dimensional taste. Some are swayed by a cute name or a different look, or because their grandmother used to grow it or their grandkids like them. It doesn't help that flavour sometimes changes from year to year, depending on the weather!

Sungold seems to be a variety that most people like, and I wouldn't let the cracking reports put you off. It doesn't crack badly for me (and for saying that, I will probably get a lot of rain just as it ripens!!!!!)

I suggest that you start a post, stating what flavours you are looking for and ask for reviews. At least it would be a start, and better than believing all the "unrealistic" reviews written by some seed sellers.

Linda

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ddsack
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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#6

Post: # 24496Unread post ddsack
Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:25 pm

Probably because we don't all have taste buds that can pick up the same flavors, and we can't even agree on what flavors we might like. Add to that individual soil composition, climate and growing techniques may change the flavor of a particular variety. So something I like from my garden, may taste different when grown in someone else's grow bags. Too many variables, including choices of fertilizers. But the fun is in the search for that perfect tomato! That's why so many of us grow so many new varieties each season.

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Nan6b
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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#7

Post: # 24515Unread post Nan6b
Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:00 pm

There are a few things that can make a tomato taste better or worse. Over-watering washes out the flavor. So too much rain or watering is out. There is such a thing as "dry farming" where you don't water unless the plant is drooping. That is said to give the best & strongest taste. Others go so far as to say don't pick a tomato until you have had dry weather for two weeks. (In many places that's impossible. Also if you're growing in containers you need to water them every day, but that is still considered minimal water. ) Some claim the addition of some additives to the soil make a tomato taste better. I think it's potassium but don't do it until someone better informed confirms it.

Sungold is a universally-liked tomato. Most folks also say Big Beef tastes good. (I can't taste certain tastes in tomatoes; to me BB is kinda bland.)

If your tomatoes are bland, try dehydrating them in a dehydrator. The flavor gets concentrated and Wow! The same would go for cooking bland tomatoes down, concentrating the flavor.

There is more to tomatoes than sugar and acid. But it's hard to describe. Fruity, spicy, complex, smoky are words sometimes used. Some words have no meaning that I can comprehend: such as "Bright". Bright is an intensity of light- what the heck do people mean when they say a tom tastes bright?!?

Black tomatoes are sometimes said to have a smoky flavor. Some do, some don't. I have tasted ones that are truly smoky. People say black tomatoes have a characteristic taste. I don't know. All the green-when ripe tomatoes I've tasted have a characteristic strong spicy taste. I love it. Ones that I can recall well are Berkeley Tie-Dye Green, and Wild Tiger. Yellows tend to be mild, but not all. (My Butter Apple was good tasting and not wimpy.) Many people swear that the big pink tomatoes are the best. Not all big pinks are great but many are supposed to be. Brandywine Sudduth is considered by many to be the ultimate tasting large pink tomato. Others are Purple Dog Creek, Limbaugh's Potato Top, Stump of the World, other Brandywines, and many I'm not remembering. I would personally endorse Dotson's Lebanese Heart, a large pink heart with good flavor, good production, and makes a great fried green tomato besides. In addition to those mentioned above, I've really liked Dr. Carolyn (a white cherry), Post office Spoonful (a small cherry with full-size tomato taste), Maglia Rosa (two-bite cherry), Matina, Gregory's Altai, & Dark Galaxy (people say most of the blue tomatoes aren't good tasting but this one was great).

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#8

Post: # 24543Unread post karstopography
Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:28 pm

Taste is so very subjective. Just look at the 10 favorite foods thread. My little family can’t even agree on their favorite tomatoes. My wife likes Mortgage Lifter the best. That tomato is good, but seems to maybe be missing something, some sort of brightness. I like Carmello, those definitely have a brightness I desire. My mom likes Hillbilly and Pineapple, doesn’t particularly like Amish Paste.

I like a tomato that has water in it and a melting texture, but not mealy. A relatively dry tomato isn’t for me unless I’m topping a pizza. I don’t buy the idea tomatoes shouldn’t be watered prior to picking. I have had almost zero issues with cracking or splitting fruit and don’t try to dry out my plants before picking. My soil does drain well.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#9

Post: # 24607Unread post Labradors
Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:44 pm

Karstopography, since you like a moist tomato, you might like Rose. It's a large pink that I love. It is hopeless for halving and cooking with bacon and egg because it has too much moisture and tends to soak the plate. It's great in a salad though :).

Linda

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#10

Post: # 24627Unread post GoDawgs
Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:21 pm

[mention]Nan6b[/mention], I had my first Brad's Atomic Grape the other day and it is definitely different in flavor than any other tomato I've ever had. I think you might be right about black tomatoes having a different flavor. BAG isn't all black but close enough and it sure tastes different. Hard to describe but the difference is beyond the acid level thing. Something else going on. I like it. Sister Pickles is still deciding but says it's growing on her. For sure it's prolific!

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#11

Post: # 24653Unread post Barmaley
Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:02 am

I think, Karstopography made a great point, we all expect different factors in tomato taste! However, we need to come up we a simple system to describe tomato taste so others could read it clear. I suggest use vector approach for the taste calibration. In the order may follow Sweetness, Sourness, Wateriness, Intensity and Complexity; each factor for the scale of 0 to 10. For instance, (2,2,3,1,0) will describe a typical supermarket tomato, while (8,6,9,?,?) should be sungold (I put exclamations singes since mine are not ripen yet and I never get a chance to try; the first numbers in the vector I place based on my expectations from reading other growers reviews). Since I did not get a chance to try homegrown tomatoes yet in sufficient quantity I am sure I am not aware about additional factors which may be missing in the vector.

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#12

Post: # 24657Unread post Shule
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:54 am

Some tomatoes are described as salty (usually black, plum tomatoes, and maybe a certain Galapagos Island tomato). Some are described as having a citrus taste. Add cheese to a tomato, and you get umami. I had a bitter tomato in 2018! (I don't mean sour like a lemon; I mean bitter like Tylenol, or magnesium chloride.)

Also, don't forget 'tomatoey', and 'old fashioned tomato taste' (what that last one means is anyone's guess). A rich taste is one I sometimes use. Potent is another (and not the same as rich, in my mind, although they both have to do with the strength of the taste).

There's a flavor that makes my scalp tingle. I've only discovered it a few times. It's really good. I feel like it might be an amino acid flavor, but I don't know what it is.

Then there's the burned acidic taste. It's not the smoky flavor; it's totally different (it literally tasted burned, and acidic). It tastes like some canned tomatoes taste. I've also tasted it in a prolific, round, red cherry tomato of an unknown breed. My sibling loved it on pizza, and said that's how pizza tomatoes ought to taste (I didn't love it so much, since it tasted burned to me).

There's a flavor that tastes kind of like peaches. You can taste it in some tomatoes when they're not fully ripe, including Sweet Ozark Orange. I think it's probably tomatine or something, but it tastes kind of sweet and peachy.

Sometimes (rarely) tomatoes taste kind of like blackberries to me. They taste like that if I eat a blackberry first, or with it, too.

Earthy is another term used to describe flavor in many black/brown/purple tomatoes.

Some tomatoes taste like Sweet Tarts.

I had one (Jackie) that sometimes tasted like a sweet and good grapefruit, with some Sweet Tart-ish flavor.

I grew an offtype of Jim Dandy that tasted kind of like butterscotch ice cream syrup. I'm growing it out again, this year.

There's another flavor that's really deep; it's hard to describe. I'm wanting to say it tastes a lot brighter/happier (as opposed to duller) than that sounds—Nan, this is the first time I've used the word 'bright' in describing tomato flavor (it never made sense to me, either). Some people (myself included) might just describe it as tart, but it's not the same as what I generally call acidic. It has rich qualities, too, and would be a great taste in sauces, or really anything.

When you're researching a tomato, always pay attention to the location of the reviewer. You might find that people from the same location often say similar things about it, while people from the other side of the country might say something else. Also, the seed source is important, because sometimes they're just not the same from every store.

The soil you grow in is important, too, as is the soil temperature.

Potassium definitely plays a role in flavor, but more isn't always better. I think nitrogen, calcium, copper, and other minerals also play a role. I believe I've heard that Epsom salt may impact flavor.

When I gave my watermelons a mixture of copper, zinc, iron, and Epsom salt, in 2018, they tasted pretty good, on average.

I think soil temperature makes a bigger difference than how often you water, although that does make a difference.

Some people think tomatoes taste better if you grow basil with them.

I'm a believer that some people can actually taste the chemicals that cause color in tomatoes. For instance, red tomatoes have a sweeter, refreshing quality, in my opinion, even when the tomato isn't particularly sweet or refreshing. The same taste is in red watermelon (but not other colors of watermelon). You might note that when people get red fruit from a SunGold F2, or such, it often tastes sweeter to them than the yellow/orange ones.
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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#13

Post: # 24707Unread post GoDawgs
Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:43 pm

There are probably specific biochemicals that are responsible for various tomato flavors. It would be handy if those could be identified and quantified. How those flavors are perceived by individuals will vary though. Even the levels of chemicals would vary in the same variety due to the vagaries of soil, climate etc cited by Shule. So I doubt we'll all ever be on the same taste page. :lol:

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#14

Post: # 24711Unread post thear111
Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:53 pm

Interesting read concerning your question...

https://www.livescience.com/17190-super ... ution.html

I consider myself a non taster... here are some that I recommend:

-Earl faux- most well rounded taste... my favorite... Sweet, tart, deeply complex (pink beefsteak)

-Sioux- bold and potent... a bit more acid than Earl Faux but the sweetness is still there... flavor is intense... depending on the day I prefer this to Earl Faux... (bright red and on the smaller end like a racquetball)

-Azoychka- again intense, but NOT bold... refreshingly strong instead... lemony... not a ton of sweetness... still pretty complex however in my opinion...
(Beefsteak sized light yellow)

I believe all the ones I mentioned are indeterminate...
Good luck with your tomato venture...🙂
You say tomato... I say tomato...

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#15

Post: # 24831Unread post Nan6b
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:52 am

Yes, I've heard Epsom Salts make them tastier.

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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#16

Post: # 24929Unread post Shule
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:37 pm

I'm tempted to put Epsom salt on all my tomatoes, this year—not for the taste, but to get more magnesium in my diet via the tomatoes. I already put it on a few plants (about 14 or 15). Hopefully I like the taste difference, too.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
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Re: Taste, Flavor, Savor, Piquancy and aftertaste...

#17

Post: # 24964Unread post Nan6b
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:31 am


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