Seeds reconditioning

Everything About Tomatoes
Post Reply
User avatar
Barmaley
Reactions:
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:55 pm
Location: Zone 5b, Eastern PA, USA

Seeds reconditioning

#1

Post: # 29838Unread post Barmaley
Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:17 am

I came back from a trip to Virginia and brought seeds of several varieties which I collected on the road. I bought tomatoes from several farm stands along the road and farmers are very friendly there sharing stories about their tomatoes experience and preferences, but most important they know their tomatoes varieties and share it. I had not a chance to keep seeds fermented for few days so I just extracted seeds and dried them, now I need to make them germinatable. What would you recommend?

User avatar
Shule
Reactions:
Posts: 2729
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:29 pm
Location: SW Idaho, USA

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#2

Post: # 29909Unread post Shule
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:06 am

Did you take the gel sacks off before drying? That makes a big difference.

When I first started saving seeds, I just dried them sacks and all (I didn't realize I could take them off without fermentation). They still grew, even with the gel sacks dried on, even though the gel sacks are said to contain substances that inhibit germination. However, there were some problems with that:

1. The seeds didn't look all clean, nice and fuzzy like brushed horses. They looked a sticky, orange mess.
2. They took longer to dry and were more prone to molding during the drying process.
3. I had a higher incidence of the seed coat not opening up properly on germination.
4. I think Alternaria was spread through the gel/seeds.

There are plenty of things you could do. For example, you can soak them in water with H202 added for a good while right before planting. That worked pretty well for me when I did it. It helps to dissolve the sacks, and should eat up diseases on the seed's exterior.

Nowadays I remove the gel sacks first, zap the seeds in herbal tea bags in water with a Z4EX, dry them on brown paper bags (still in their herbal tea bags) in a room with a fan. Most people ferment, but I can't easily do that with as many tomatoes as I grow, considering my available resources. So, I zap them instead (it's an experimental process that hasn't been reviewed terribly by other gardeners, but it seems to work for me), and it saves a lot of time and space. I do ferment some muskmelons with significant gel, however! (It's just easier, since it takes a lot of effort to remove those melon seed gel sacks manually, and I don't have a hundred kinds of them in a given year. Torpeda and Kirkman are two examples of ones with significant gel.)

I also like to freeze seeds that are already dry (not wet) before planting, especially seeds from trades, and my oldest seeds that I haven't zapped. The freezing is a precaution against some cold-intolerant diseases and seed pests, but I think it has other benefits, since seeds in nature often have a cold period.

I know there are more popular non-fermentation methods than mine, like using bleach, or using a certain product (I'm not sure which one, but it starts with an O).

Nitrates are supposed to help old seeds (and weeds) germinate, I've read. Never tried it.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

User avatar
Shule
Reactions:
Posts: 2729
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:29 pm
Location: SW Idaho, USA

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#3

Post: # 29910Unread post Shule
Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:17 am

Oh, and don't forget you can always still ferment them. I know some people who have fermented seeds again that were already dry.

If you're just worried about germination, I wouldn't be terribly worried, though, as long as you plant several seeds to make sure. But, there are other issues, like disease and aesthetics.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

User avatar
Cole_Robbie
Reactions:
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#4

Post: # 29946Unread post Cole_Robbie
Sat Sep 05, 2020 1:30 pm

Oxy clean is the oxidation product. It is similar to peroxide.

EdieJ
Reactions:
Posts: 459
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 8:34 pm
Location: North AL Zone 7

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#5

Post: # 29955Unread post EdieJ
Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:37 pm

Oxy Clean! Wow, thanks. Use it for washing prior to drying seeds, or do you soak them in it just prior to sowing?
North Central AL (mountains)
Zone 7

User avatar
Cole_Robbie
Reactions:
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#6

Post: # 29958Unread post Cole_Robbie
Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:16 pm

EdieJ wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:37 pm Oxy Clean! Wow, thanks. Use it for washing prior to drying seeds, or do you soak them in it just prior to sowing?
Mix freshly squeezed seeds with one cup water and one tbsp of oxy clean. It eats the gel off the outside. I'm not sure it matters how long you let it sit. 30 to 45 minutes is enough, but longer doesn't hurt anything. Then I spray them off in a strainer, paper towel the bottom of the strainer, and tap onto wax paper. Dry in a cabinet or somewhere away from flies.

User avatar
Barmaley
Reactions:
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:55 pm
Location: Zone 5b, Eastern PA, USA

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#7

Post: # 30005Unread post Barmaley
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:48 am

My seeds are sticky; however, I don't care about aesthetics. I am concern about them to be ably to germinate. [mention]Shule[/mention] advised that I am also need to be concern about diseases and fungus and the ability to save then for the next season(and may be several more seasons). May I say that keeping them in a freezer is the safest way to preserve the seeds? And the second question: do I have to remove the sticky substance around them or just used them as is?

User avatar
Shule
Reactions:
Posts: 2729
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:29 pm
Location: SW Idaho, USA

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#8

Post: # 30072Unread post Shule
Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:44 pm

[mention]Barmaley[/mention]
If you don't care about disease, aesthetics, or a possible increase in problems with the seed coat opening, you don't need to remove the sticky substance, particularly. It may or may not reduce germination rates, but if you plant several seeds, you'll probably still get a good number of plants sprouting. The seeds can stay viable (at room temperature) for at least a few years with the sticky stuff. I'm not sure how the sticky stuff interacts with freezing for long periods. It might collect more moisture.

Oh, keep in mind, that I live in a semi-arid climate. So, the sticky stuff might not stay dry as easily in other climates, and that could be a problem. Dehydrated tomatoes, for instance, don't get soft if left uncovered in my house (unless the room gets steamy from canning or something, in which case they go from hard and tough to soft and chewy). I understand they do get soft and mold in other climates. In those climates, I imagine the seeds wouldn't last as long.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

User avatar
Cole_Robbie
Reactions:
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#9

Post: # 30104Unread post Cole_Robbie
Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:24 pm

Seeds with gel will grow black mold in my humid summer climate.

User avatar
bower
Reactions:
Posts: 5474
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:44 pm
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#10

Post: # 30139Unread post bower
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:53 am

I once received some rare seeds that had been dried that way and were still covered in the dry gel remains. I soaked them in whey (just the liquid from a plain yoghurt) for 4 hours before planting. No mold issues, and they germinated fine.
The "mold mat" that caps the fermenting seeds in natural fermentation, a lactobacillus is the organism involved. These are also thought to confer some benefits to germinating seeds - at least they may displace pathogens that could otherwise occupy the seed coat niche. The germinating sprout in soil develops its own community of microbes, which changes rapidly and depends on stage of growth, according to what I've read. But lactobacilli are generally considered a beneficial in plant microbiomes.
AgCan Zone 5a/USDA zone 4
temperate marine climate
yearly precip 61 inches/1550 mm

User avatar
Barmaley
Reactions:
Posts: 159
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:55 pm
Location: Zone 5b, Eastern PA, USA

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#11

Post: # 30191Unread post Barmaley
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:07 pm

Sorry guys, I may not phrase my question correctly. I don't care about aesthetics but I do care about seeds health. I afraid that soaking seeds now after they were dry for a while will make them germinate now. What would you do if in my shoes if you want to preserve the seeds in the best way for a few years?

User avatar
bower
Reactions:
Posts: 5474
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:44 pm
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#12

Post: # 30196Unread post bower
Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:54 pm

Keep them dry, in a clean envelope, until you're ready to germinate some. When you grow them, save some fresh seeds and clean them for long term storage.
AgCan Zone 5a/USDA zone 4
temperate marine climate
yearly precip 61 inches/1550 mm

User avatar
Cole_Robbie
Reactions:
Posts: 1431
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:58 pm

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#13

Post: # 30206Unread post Cole_Robbie
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:20 pm

I don't think a quick soak in an oxidizer would do any harm. They dry faster than they germinate. You could try it with just a few seeds first to make sure.

Barmaley wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:07 pm Sorry guys, I may not phrase my question correctly. I don't care about aesthetics but I do care about seeds health. I afraid that soaking seeds now after they were dry for a while will make them germinate now. What would you do if in my shoes if you want to preserve the seeds in the best way for a few years?

User avatar
Shule
Reactions:
Posts: 2729
Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:29 pm
Location: SW Idaho, USA

Re: Seeds reconditioning

#14

Post: # 30211Unread post Shule
Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:50 pm

Yeah, it might be better to get rid of the gel now than to risk it molding later. Tomatoes usually take a number of days to germinate. If you dry it before it germinates, it shouldn't be hurt. If you dry it after it has roots, then it's dead.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

Post Reply

Return to “Tomato Talk”