better boy comparable heirlooms?

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xwindowuser
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better boy comparable heirlooms?

#1

Post: # 41360Unread post xwindowuser
Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:34 pm

I like better boy hybrids.
But I'd rather grow something comparable that I can save seeds form each year.

I'm not too knowledgeable yet, on the F1-F2 hybrid breeding and seeds stuff.

I basically will grow a tomato and save seeds each year to grow the following year. But better boy being a hybrid, that doesn't work that way right? The seeds may not be true to type, it might be one or the other parent correct?

Anyway I'm just trying to find tomatoes that are about the size and flavor of better boy that I can save seeds from.

Any suggestions or a tutorial on the breeding or seeds thing, IE f1, f2 stuff and all that?

thanks

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Shule
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#2

Post: # 41375Unread post Shule
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:05 am

It is correct that the F2 will be different from the F1. You may or may not notice how it's different, though.

It is incorrect that the F2 seeds will be exactly the same as one of the parents of the F1. It'll still be some kind of mixture of the two parents (no matter how many generations you grow it out), whether it favors one of them or not, whether it looks the same or not (and you should definitely not call it by their names).

You can save seeds from hybrids and grow them every year, but yes, they will be genetically different until you stabilize them. (Even then, they'll be different from the F1, but they'll stop being different every year.)

I'm of the opinion that your best chance at finding an OP similar to Better Boy F1 is either to look for an OP Better Boy or else breed one yourself. The F2s should be at least kind of like Better Boy F1, if not a lot like it.

I've grown a lot of tomatoes, and none of them were like Better Boy F1. So, that's why I say the F2s are probably one of your best options. However, I would recommend searching for an OP version of it first. It's probable that someone has bred one (probably more than one person).

I know there are stabilized Brandy Boys out there, and while they're not terribly popular for some unknown reason, they're still excellent tomatoes. I imagine the same is true for the Better Boy OPs, if they exist.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Shule
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#3

Post: # 41376Unread post Shule
Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:06 am

If all you want is a similar tomato to Better Boy F1, just grow the F2s. Grow as many plants as you like (the more the better, but you can potentially find something acceptable for your purposes with one to a few plants; maybe not, but it's worth the effort, I think), and save seeds from the ones you like the most. Then the next year, do the same thing with the F3s. Then do the same with the F4s, and so on, until you're satisfied that it's stable. It should be stable after about eight generations.

By the time you've gone through a few generations, you may have found more than one line of plants that you like and want to stabilize.

If the F2s don't turn out to be anything remarkable, take heart, because sometimes the F3s resulting from those F2s will still be remarkable.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Nan6b
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#4

Post: # 41394Unread post Nan6b
Fri Feb 19, 2021 9:18 am

Trying to de-hybridize Better Boy isn't going to be easy. You don't always get one every year that conforms to what you want.

Instead, list the qualities you like about Better Boy F1, and find an OP that fits the bill. Great tasting, productive, large tomatoes which resist disease: I'd recommend Stump of the World or Dotson's Lebanese Heart.

Edit- There are about 7,000 varieties of tomato to choose from, you know.
I have seeds for the above if you need them send me a PM- personal message- not a general offer.

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Doffer
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#5

Post: # 41407Unread post Doffer
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 pm

What is so special to Better Boy F1?

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Paulf
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#6

Post: # 41412Unread post Paulf
Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:33 pm

I used to grow Betters, Bests, Boys and Girls twenty-five years ago. They were tomatoes. Then I discovered the wide world of "real" tomatoes. That was the end of hybrids. As Nan says. There are so many really good choices and in my opinion all are better than the Betters.

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Cole_Robbie
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#7

Post: # 41418Unread post Cole_Robbie
Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:50 pm

In one year with ideal weather, which for me is a lot of rain for the first 30 days and then no rain at all for the next 30 days, big and better boy were as good as any red tomato I ever had.

xwindowuser
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#8

Post: # 41419Unread post xwindowuser
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:16 pm

Paulf wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:33 pm I used to grow Betters, Bests, Boys and Girls twenty-five years ago. They were tomatoes. Then I discovered the wide world of "real" tomatoes. That was the end of hybrids. As Nan says. There are so many really good choices and in my opinion all are better than the Betters.
whata re your recommendations?

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jmsieglaff
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#9

Post: # 41420Unread post jmsieglaff
Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:34 pm

I'd try Neves Azorean Red and Box Car Willie. I haven't grown Better Boy, but I'd guess flavor-wise, Neves Azorean Red will be sweeter and Box Car Willie might be closer flavor-wise to Better Boy. But I'd suggest trying both.

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MissS
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#10

Post: # 41590Unread post MissS
Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:30 pm

Try some of the Pink tomatoes. One taste and they sent me on a new journey of tomato growing.
~ Patti ~

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Nan6b
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#11

Post: # 41596Unread post Nan6b
Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:28 pm

Yes, there are a ton of large pinks that people swear by. The following are ones I know are popular with someone:

Aunt Ginny's Purple,
Bear Claw,
Berkeley Tie-dye pink,
Brandywine (the pink one),
Caspian pink,
Dr. Lyle,
Eva Purple Ball,
Giant Belgium,
Joe's Pink OXheart,
Kosovo,
Limbaugh's Legacy Potato Top,
Livingston's Globe,
Ludmilla's pink Heart,
Marianna's Peace,
Mortgage Lifter,
Polish Ellis,
Pomodoro di Sorrento,
Purple Dog Creek,
Stump of the world,
Swoon,
Terhune,
Turkey Creek,
Zena's Gift

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Tormato
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#12

Post: # 41601Unread post Tormato
Sun Feb 21, 2021 2:10 pm

Someone says that Eva Purple Ball can be sworn to be a great pink tomato, but just not a large one.

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Nan6b
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#13

Post: # 41606Unread post Nan6b
Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:08 pm

:oops: You're right; I misspoke. :oops:

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Simmran1
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#14

Post: # 41692Unread post Simmran1
Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:23 pm

As suggested above there are heirlooms that are comparable to Better Boy F1. I've always been impressed with the Joe Bratka
released varieties of Box Car Willie, Mule Team, Great Divide, and Red Barn. I'm betting Mule Team will out produce and taste better too.

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Barmaley
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#15

Post: # 42054Unread post Barmaley
Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:35 pm

I found Best Boy hybrid seeds in Lowe's by Burpee. Is it the same thing as Better Boy or is it even better?

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Shule
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#16

Post: # 42188Unread post Shule
Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:26 pm

[mention]Barmaley[/mention]
Best Boy F1 is a different variety, but I believe it's supposed to be similar.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Shule
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#17

Post: # 42189Unread post Shule
Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:31 pm

Doffer wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:15 pm What is so special to Better Boy F1?
* Taste (It's both good and very unique, IMO; if you don't agree that it's particularly unique, and not everyone does, you'll have a much easier time finding a replacement for it than I mentioned in my previous post.)
* Texture (It has a good firm texture that is fairly unique—almost as unique as the flavor. I'm really into food texture kind of like a lot of people are with flavor; I can't say whether it seems unique to other people, but I was very impressed and surprised by it; it's really high quality)
* It's a world record holder for the most pounds of fruit, I believe (not for the most fruits); you have to give it special conditions to compete there, I've read
* It's generally supposed to be productive and reliable.
* It's a popular hybrid that a lot of people have already grown and evaluated. There's no shortage of reviews.
* It's a good hearty tomato that fans of tomatoes known as Beefsteak might enjoy similarly, whether or not the two are interchangeable (Peaceful Valley's Beefsteak is one of the closer ones to its flavor, but perhaps not all other qualities, and the flavor is still pretty different.)
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Shule
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Re: better boy comparable heirlooms?

#18

Post: # 42805Unread post Shule
Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:12 pm

[mention]xwindowuser[/mention]

Well, there is an OP version of Better Boy. Knapp's Fresh Vegie's sells it, along with OP versions of many other hybrids (e.g. Early Girl, Celebrity, 4th of July, Better Bush, etc.):

* http://knapps-fresh-vegies.com/better-boy.html

It's implied (if you read enough other stuff on the site) that this isn't merely F2 or otherwise unstable seed.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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