How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

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Growing Coastal
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#281

Post: # 19775Unread post Growing Coastal
Tue May 12, 2020 11:23 am

When things open up do be careful out there. Here's what happened to one Canadian church's congregation.
CALGARY -- Members of a Calgary church ravaged by COVID-19 in the early days of the pandemic are sharing their stories of grief and healing, after Alberta's chief medical health officer cited them as a cautionary tale.

"I had the opportunity recently to talk to a faith leader whose faith community gathered together in mid-March before many of our public health measures were in place,” Dr Deena Hinshaw said Thursday. "The congregation had a worship service and then gathered together for a celebratory social event. There were only 41 people present, and they were careful to observe two meter distancing and good hand hygiene. They followed all the rules and did nothing wrong. "

Despite that, 24 of the 41 people at the party ended up infected. Two of them died.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/i-would-do-a ... sc=c2Mbygl

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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#282

Post: # 19780Unread post Labradors
Tue May 12, 2020 11:56 am

So sad, but were they really 6' apart? It's so hard to keep the distance of a hockey stick away from people :(.

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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#283

Post: # 19815Unread post Sue_CT
Tue May 12, 2020 5:04 pm

Thank you, Bower. No one is saying stay shut down for 18 onths or until there is a vaccine. So many who are tired of the shut down to go extremes when justifying why it should be opened up completely. The other problem is that part of the reason for the shut down was to allow a government and a country that was not prepared to handle this, to bulk up what they needed to get through it as cases increased when we SLOWLY opened up, like producing MILLIONS more gowns, masks, shields and antibacterial wipes, to get massive testing in place so we could isolate just those infected and not the rest of the country, to set up a network for contact tracing so more isolated flare ups could be controlled, and instead we sat on our hands. Our goverment did not do what it could have to get us there. So now we might have to face those increasing cases starting with depleted resources, medical personel who are tired, very tired, and over worked and burned out and working possibly while infecting more people.

It will get better for a while, with more supplies as supply lines open up some, but they will quickly disappear as new cases increase. So instead of having businesses fail because people are staying home, they can fail as workers become sick and even die.

You can keep a meat packing plant open by force, but you can't keep those working from falling severely ill and dying by force. You can shut it down and isolate the infections and meat will be become more expensive and less available, and yes people will have to adapt and eat less expensive sources of protein like beans and fill up on things like cereal and pasta and bread for a while. But as those people get sicker and more people in the plant die, how do you convince new workers to go in, knowing that that is happening? How do you keep it open as it continues to exist as a viral petri dish?

And I am not one "just stting at home" expecting the rest of the world to bring me stuff. I am the one that comes home exhausted every day to be told there will be no vacation time, that there are not enough tests to test employees, and if I get tested elsewhere I am still expected to go to work every day where I can only try my best not infect more people because there are not enough trained health care workers to take care of those coming in. And try not to be like the ED Doctor that couldn't cope with what she was seeing or the ICU nurse who found out she was positive and comitting suicide because she couldn't handle the idea that she may infected others, including patients and coworks and possibly been responsible for more suffering and deaths.

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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#284

Post: # 19817Unread post Sue_CT
Tue May 12, 2020 5:30 pm

I will be honest. I will be 60 in a just a few months. I have asthma. I have been told I am high risk. So far I have been lucky. It has crossed my mind, however, to wonder if I will ever get to retire. If I will be one of the ones that go down fighting this. Some have few or no symptoms. Some are taken down and taken out at breath taking speed. I am not cavalier about it, and I have many years of training and experience behind me that I hope will get me through this. But I just hope if it takes me out it won't be something I got because someone was stupid or just tired of staying home or felt put upon because they had to keep working while less essential employees stayed home. I hope it will be because I helped a mother be there when her children grew up or I helped return a nurse or doctor to thier work where they could save more lives, or an electrician that fixed the faulty wiring that prevented an entire family from being wiped out. I just don't want to die doing this for some stupid reason, and I don't want anyone to either.

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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#285

Post: # 19822Unread post karstopography
Tue May 12, 2020 6:25 pm

We can arm chair quarterback this all we want, but this is a novel virus and a massive challenge to any and every place, just about any place on earth, any major country anyway. Various competing and sometimes conflicting needs, saving one thing, kills the other and vice versa.

No one in their right minds want people to unnecessarily die from covid19 and no one really wants to destroy the economy, with the permutations and perils that would unleash.

Some countries are getting largely spared and others hammered. Some places in USA are having a terrible time, others like my area barely have any cases. I’ve got a daughter that’s treated Covid19 patients, the little they’ve had, her hospital cut hours for nurses with so little “non-essential procedures” being done. But, anyway, she knows the virus is the real deal for those that it hits hard. Some like my old classmate had zero symptoms, yet tested positive and he’s considered “high risk” with underlying medical issues.

No one knows how this will be play out. We are all doing our best, trying to stay safe and trying to continue living life. This too shall pass.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#286

Post: # 19848Unread post Clkeiper
Wed May 13, 2020 7:06 am

the whole medical care issue at this point is extremely distressing and it has nothing and all to due with covid. we had two people die from lack of being able to see a doctor and get care (virtual care just doesn't cut it) one was a man I babysat for his family when our children were all small and another in the community who couldn't get care after his initial diagnosis. My mother in law had a nose bleed for about 3 hours before I took her to the hospital. she is legally blind hard of hearing and some days I think she is getting dementia... they made me drop her off at the doors and kicked me out. told me to make an appointment in 3 days to have the packing removed... that was last monday. when I called to make the appointment they told me the doctor wasn't taking any in patient visits.... well, this isn't going to be a teledoc or virtual visit. it took him 1 week to return the call and make her an appointment to see her. that is today.

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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#287

Post: # 19851Unread post brownrexx
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 am

I don't think that people in my county in PA are being stupid or just want to get out.

We are not seeing the type of situations described by @Sue_CTor in New York City . One large hospital in my area has TWO Covid patients and the biggest hospital in the city where the majority of infections are, has 43 Covid patients and ony a few of those are in the ICU. Sorry I forget the exact number but I think that it's 14.

70% of the infections in my county are in nursing homes.

I am not saying that people should go out and have big parties or do whatever they want but this total lockdown seems to be more than is needed in my area. The protesters are asking for partial lockdown while following CDC guidelines. They are not asking to remove ALL restrictions. I have come to believe that this is reasonable.

I don't want to get sick or die and I don't want to sicken anyone else but I can stay at home if I want to, and I will since I am over 65.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#288

Post: # 19854Unread post GoDawgs
Wed May 13, 2020 8:48 am

brownrexx wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 am
I am not saying that people should go out and have big parties or do whatever they want but this total lockdown seems to be more than is needed in my area. The protesters are asking for partial lockdown while following CDC guidelines. They are not asking to remove ALL restrictions. I have come to believe that this is reasonable.
Same here. There is no "one size fits all" solution. It appears that Florida got it right. Big protection of the most vulnerable and concentrate on hot spots.

The county next to me got its first case of virus just last week.

There has to be a gradual opening of the economy in areas where it makes sense to do so and soon or there will be no economy left. Mortgages can't be delayed forever and neither can car payments, credit card bills, etc. It's a whole economic ladder; if the bottom rung can't pay their bill, every rung up the ladder can't pay their bills including employees which sends more people to add to the bottom rung. The personal debt that is mounting up will take many people half a life time to clear, if ever.

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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#289

Post: # 19855Unread post mikestuff49
Wed May 13, 2020 9:19 am

GoDawgs wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 8:48 am
brownrexx wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 7:48 am
I am not saying that people should go out and have big parties or do whatever they want but this total lockdown seems to be more than is needed in my area. The protesters are asking for partial lockdown while following CDC guidelines. They are not asking to remove ALL restrictions. I have come to believe that this is reasonable.
Same here. There is no "one size fits all" solution. It appears that Florida got it right. Big protection of the most vulnerable and concentrate on hot spots.

The county next to me got its first case of virus just last week.

There has to be a gradual opening of the economy in areas where it makes sense to do so and soon or there will be no economy left. Mortgages can't be delayed forever and neither can car payments, credit card bills, etc. It's a whole economic ladder; if the bottom rung can't pay their bill, every rung up the ladder can't pay their bills including employees which sends more people to add to the bottom rung. The personal debt that is mounting up will take many people half a life time to clear, if ever.
@GoDawgs,

I think you are absolutely right about the necessity to reopen with care being taken. The thing is that reopening is a two-way street. If I own a restaurant, I need to reopen to pay my bills, mortgage, etc. The other side of the street is that I need a sufficient number of people to do business with me to make that practical. There are a good number of businesses that are in a better position than others. People need food, they need medicine, they need to have their car repaired if it breaks down. People do not NEED a new outfit, new knickknacks to decorate their homes or a vacation.

Sounds glum, but I don't think there will ever be a successful reopening of all society until people are able to be assured that going back into normal activities is safe for them. This REQUIRES either an effective treatment or a vaccine and a rapid test to know people's status. Until then, people (customers) will decide which businesses are essential and which are not. Until we can get rid of the uncertainty, I don't think we can resume a normal life.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#290

Post: # 19867Unread post Bower
Wed May 13, 2020 12:25 pm

The other thing is, some businesses can do distancing more easily than others. Once you see how to set it up, and you do it effectively, there's no reason not to open clothing stores or whatever if case loads are under control, any kind of store that has clients to come and buy in spite of the economy. Clothing is an essential they left out. I don't buy clothes very often but when you need it, believe me, I finally cut up an old pair of pants that don't fit to replace the whole legs of my work jeans which I can't do without. :roll: Thank g f sewing machine and infernal pile of old clothes. Looks a bit wierd but so far holding up, I cannot go out and clear brush with holey rags on. :x Right??!!
Next thing you know I will have some other varmint disease to share with everybody. :roll: :lol: :evil:
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#291

Post: # 19869Unread post Sue_CT
Wed May 13, 2020 12:29 pm

I a little confused by the idea that if the most deaths are in nursing homes that is somehow comforting. Nursing home residents become sick and they get sent to hospitals, also overwhelming hospitals. They are put on ventilators, also over taxing ICUs. They are not all dementia patients that are so far gone in thier orientation that they don't know what is going on. Many in nursing homes are there for REHAB. They broke a hip, had a fall, need to gain strength before going back home again, and they are basically being massacred by this virus. They are as alert as you and I, and if they die either in the nursing home or in the hospitals, they are dying alone, with no family or loved ones with them, unable to say goodbye, and the ones that love them are dealing with the same cirucmstances and unble to be with dying family members or say goodbye. It is sad to see a state with over 40,000 cases and 1800 deaths cited as a place that "did it right". Given thier population that is certainly not the worst in the country, but not what I would have cited as a shining example of what we are striving for, either.

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Post: # 19873Unread post brownrexx
Wed May 13, 2020 1:34 pm

@Sue_CT I believe that you have misunderstood my comment about the majority of cases in my county being in nursing homes. I did not say this because it is in any way comforting that they are the ones dying. My father died in a nursing home from complications of the flu which went through his nursing home so I do know what it's like to live and also to die in a nursing home.

My county is considered to be a nice place to retire and my small town with a population of only 9400 has 4 large nursing homes. The reason I mentioned that the majority of Covid patients are in nursing homes is to point out that the majority of the population here is not coming into contact with them and nursing home residents are most likely not shopping in the stores that want to open their businesses. The nursing home residents are not spreading Covid throughout the community.

As I said earlier our hospitals are definitely not overwhelmed.

Mentioning the nursing home residents was in relation to small business owners wanting to get back to business not because I do not have any empathy for the nursing home residents or staff.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#293

Post: # 19874Unread post Bower
Wed May 13, 2020 2:11 pm

You're so right Sue. It is a catastrophe. Why couldn't we protect the most vulnerable? Why couldn't we keep it out of those places? My poor Mom who is 85 and immune compromised, is so angry about this (although she is not in a home, thank goodness), and we all are disgusted because Canada failed miserably to protect our seniors. The same story first in BC, then Ontario and Quebec, basically a massacre of the old folks confined in these homes.
I am really proud of our local health officials, who came out like dogs snarling at us to stay home, and bolted all the doors to all those homes before any covid got in. They did right.

I just wanted to comment about, what happens as we relax the rules and supposedly gradually reopen with various measures still in place.
We are now at level 4 (of 5) with less than 20 active cases in the area. There were two new cases last week, one came from Alberta but the other was not traceable to a source. So although levels are low, we know it is still out there and not impossible to encounter it.
Today was my shopping day, for Mom and myself, and afterwards picked up her medication.
The temperature out is much like a meat locker - technically a few degrees warmer but very breezy and counting the windchill, I'd say equivalent.
The supermarket has brought in their hort products and I stopped to talk to the young man stacking them outside, he told me which one would work for a potting mix for tomatoes and to ring it in with the cashier inside.
I didn't wear a mask, and there were fewer wearing masks now in the store, but after about 5 minutes I got a tickle in my throat like I might cough, so I whipped it out of my pocket and put it on just in case, and wore it while I picked out the stuff. I got the groceries and rang in hers then mine at the self checkout. They have a protocol to sanitize the whole station between clients, which is great. Then afterwards I asked one of the staff, could we ring in a couple of bags of potting mix.
The trouble is, she couldn't understand me talking through the mask at a distance.
So I took it off, so she could hear me.
No sooner I had it off then not only the first staff but a second one were right on top of me, listening to what I had to say. They completely broke ranks of social distance and within a couple feet of me. I told her what I needed and she got a clipboard with the codes and rang it in at my checkout. She uttered a little dry cough to the side as she was doing that. No mask on any of the staff. So I punched in my numbers and paid, and then picked up the stuff outside after loading the groceries.
I am not at all worried about any of this. But it is an eye opener. Social distancing is difficult. I had two fellas come by here the other day, one with a load of horse manure and the other to look at my steps that need to be fixed. They are folks I know well, who have been isolating and maybe not even doing the grocery run. They have no practice and in both cases, there were moments when they forgot and came closer than the 2 meters. Consider the employees of a grocery store, who had more practice than anyone. But the moment I removed my mask, they totally huddled in. It is just a cautionary tale that we don't have the skillset to draw boundaries as we relax. Just the first level of distancing was hard, but what does relaxing mean? So in terms of pandemic prevention, I think we are best to limit our expectations of what will happen when we're "okay to relax the restrictions".
It is human nature to approach one another, even if you are talking to a stranger while working in a store.
I know the acoustics in a cash register area are not great, but don't mistake that I couldn't be heard at 2 meters. If there was an acoustic olympics I would probably be on the podium. Droplet olympics for that matter. I used to sing for my supper and I never needed a microphone. In martial arts, excelling at the Ki-ai. I have a set of lungs on me like a mountaineer. They came close not because I couldn't be heard, but because I removed my mask and human nature said, those rules are over. And these are people who live with it every work day.
So the relaxing of rules to open society and the economy is not going to be the sweet mechanical process that the authorities hoped for.
We will just have to do our best. ;)
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#294

Post: # 19878Unread post Sue_CT
Wed May 13, 2020 2:52 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Brownrexx. I hope they stay on top of that, because it has not been the experience of us or other places. The nursing homes have actually been contact traced back as the placing seeding covid in thier local communities. That is because the workers don't know a patient is positive and they are exposed and then carry it into the community before they know they are doing so. It has become such a clear source of covid in communities, that in addition to locking down nursing homes to prevent it from entering those that it has not already, the Govenor in CT has declared he wants every nursing home resident and worker tested in the state in an attempt to get it under control. So it is great that that has not yet happened where you are but just be aware that it does not necessarily stay at nursing homes. If the residents don't go out to the businesses, the workers at the nursing homes do.

Yes, Bower, it is easy to forget about social distancing, but opening up does NOT mean removing masks. It means masks are even more important. Not only do they protect others but they remind everyone that they still need to use safe practices. Even if you are the only one doing it, it also is a reminder to others. We can also kindly remind others who forget. We need to help each other to get through this safely. If as soon as you had seen them approaching too close, you had pulled up your mask, I bet they would have gotten the message without your even saying anything.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#295

Post: # 19879Unread post Bower
Wed May 13, 2020 3:09 pm

Yeah Sue, it is wierd that removing my mask (so I could be heard) seemed to be the trigger for them to break social distancing. It makes no sense to me because these are not just your friends or strangers in heyho random situation trying to do the thing or forget about it. These are workers in a store. They practice distancing daily vs I shop only once in 2-3 weeks. I have had maybe half dozen 'practices' of social distance since this started, while they are at it daily probably at minimum 5 days a week, so 30 times to my half dozen.
So needless to say I was very surprised to see it fall apart in that situation. It was the last thing I expected, for removing my mask to speak!
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

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Post: # 19881Unread post brownrexx
Wed May 13, 2020 3:37 pm

@Sue_CT "nursing homes" in my area are actually retirement communities complete with independent living cottages or apartments, assisted living apartments and complete nursing care. These communities have their own restaurants, ice cream shoppes, hair salons, gyms, woodworking shops and even a few stores. They are not shabby or inexpensive by any means and the residents get excellent medical care. Some of them never leave the campus even when there is not a quarantine.

My gym is associated with one of these communities and it has been closed since March but because I am a gym member I get an e-newsletter from the retirement home. They locked down the nursing home part and stopped visitors from when the first case was discovered. The restaurant has been closed to all but take out and delivery since day 1. The residents have been confined to their rooms/apartments and the staff has dedicated workers for just the Covid patients. They have really done a good job there and I believe that there have been no new infections. They do those visitations through the window and they have also provided residents with tablets and Zoom meetings to visit their loved ones.

One thing that is making a lot of people really angry is that our Governor and Health Department Director forced the nursing homes to take recovering Covid patients out of the hospitals early on. I am not sure how they should have done this differently but some people are saying that they sent Covid patients into our most vulnerable communities. If my Dad were still living, I know that I would be upset about this too.

It's a bad situation all around but I honestly think that it's time to open up some of the businesses in my area with proper safety precautions. Those families are suffering too.

Most people are not just wanting to do frivolous things like hang out at the mall or go to a crowded restaurant. We just want to get our hair cut or see an eye doctor or a dentist. These things have all been closed. I see the parking lots at Wal Mart and Home Depot just full of cars and I fail to see why small businesses can not keep customers as safe as the big stores.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

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Post: # 19886Unread post worth1
Wed May 13, 2020 4:13 pm

I'm just glad to be home and away from the construction site nightmare for another day.
As soon as anyone of any authority is out of sight the masks come off with many of these guys.
I may go from one site to the next in one day spreading it around you just never know.
So far I have been really good or really lucky, I'll take either one at this point.
I haven't even knocked a dent in my food supply at home.
As far as barber shops and so on opening up so people can get a haircut I couldn't care less other than those folks staying in business.
As for me my look is wild hair sticking out all over the place like a mad scientist or a kook professor.
It's my look I carry well others not so well.

Restaurants I dont eat at but others do.
So I have to consider them too.
Threadgills restaurant shut down for good it was an Austin icon my wife and I use to go to all the time.
Bars and clubs I couldn't care less about, drink at home, 'Too many drunks on the road anyway.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#298

Post: # 19889Unread post Sue_CT
Wed May 13, 2020 5:16 pm

I agree as long as it is under control locally and there is adequate local testing and quarantine as needed, with proper precautions things can slowly open up. But that is not what we are seeing. By the way, the virus does not care if a facility is nice and expensive or shabby and inexpensive. It does sound like local authorities took the necessary steps in your area early on and I wish that were the case everywhere. I hope it stays that way. Our local hair salons are opening up too and I have an appointment, lol. It will be under strict measures to prevent infection, including all customers to wear masks, those doing the hair must wear both masks and face shields, no waiting room in the salon, no drinks served, customers must bring thier own, and they even initially said no blow dryers could be used. Now apparently they have decided for some reason that blow dryers can be used after all. Anyway, there is opening up, and then there is opening up. For us, opening up does NOT mean removing masks and going back to normal. Those that do, place themselves and others at more risk. On the news tonight they are saying the cases are still increasing nationwide, but now the most new cases are in more rural states and counties rather than the coastal areas and cities. So I hope people aren't breathing a sigh of relief yet. It might just not have hit where you are yet. That doesn't mean it won't. Fingers crossed that most people have learned from what the early states have gone through and are still trying to get a handle on. Unfortunately a Iot people simple refuse to believe it could happen where they are just because it hasn't yet. Denial can be a dangerous thing.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#299

Post: # 19892Unread post brownrexx
Wed May 13, 2020 5:27 pm

By the way, the virus does not care if a facility is nice and expensive or shabby and inexpensive.
I realize that but nice and expensive usually means better paid staff and more of them. It is a desirable place to work and they may have more supplies for the staff since they are a place that makes a lot of money. No cutting corners from what I have seen.
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Re: How is the COVID-19 pandemic affecting you?

#300

Post: # 19950Unread post mikestuff49
Thu May 14, 2020 12:12 pm

A company in my area was open for business (They print labels for all kinds of products.) They were able to observe distance and wore masks. An employee called in sick with a fever. He was told to be tested for Covid before he returned to work. He went to his doctor and could not get the test because he did not display enough symptoms to meet the criteria. He could have gone to a private clinic to get the test, but that would have cost him several hundred dollars. The company appealed to the local news station because they have an investigative reporter who looks into community problems. They contacted the local hospital and health service and were told that unless the individual displays enough symptoms to meet the criteria, they would not be tested.

I think the lack of testing availability in our area is the reason for the low number of cases. Ours is a tourist town where people from everywhere come and go regularly. I'm afraid that this will blow up sooner or later.
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