Building a Raised Bed

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karstopography
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#41

Post: # 24946Unread post karstopography
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:56 am

I do tomato yoga in mine. I like stretching. Likely there are places that will deliver soil in bulk if the beds are larger. Bagged soil gets expensive fast for larger beds and can easily cost more than the bed construction materials. I used my truck to get a cubic yard from the feed store. The feed store uses a front end loader and drops it right in. but maybe you don’t have a 22 year old truck like mine so delivery is nice. Living Earth is nationwide I believe and they have a garden blend in bulk. A Cubic yard runs around $35 here and is a mix of compost and soil. There are also raised bed calculators online to make it easy peasy to figure out how much to get. 4’x8’x1’ is 1.2 cubic yards of material if filled to the brim. Better it is I think to leave a little freeboard so mulch can be added later.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#42

Post: # 24949Unread post Ginger2778
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:04 am

karstopography wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:56 am I do tomato yoga in mine. I like stretching. Likely there are places that will deliver soil in bulk if the beds are larger. Bagged soil gets expensive fast for larger beds and can easily cost more than the bed construction materials. I used my truck to get a cubic yard from the feed store. The feed store uses a front end loader and drops it right in. but maybe you don’t have a 22 year old truck like mine so delivery is nice. Living Earth is nationwide I believe and they have a garden blend in bulk. A Cubic yard runs around $35 here and is a mix of compost and soil. There are also raised bed calculators online to make it easy peasy to figure out how much to get. 4’x8’x1’ is 1.2 cubic yards of material if filled to the brim. Better it is I think to leave a little freeboard so mulch can be added later.
Wow! What a great and helpful tip. Using a bed soil calculator! We have several bulk custom blend and deliver soil companies, that's a great possibility. I really appreciate these tips from experience.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#43

Post: # 24950Unread post Ginger2778
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:07 am

I think this might be the best thread I have read in years. You guys sharing your knowledge coming from experience is so wonderful. You guys rock! Please keep them coming.
Last edited by Ginger2778 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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worth1
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#44

Post: # 24951Unread post worth1
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:12 am

Worth
25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.

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You might as well be arguing with a cat.

MsCowpea
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#45

Post: # 26084Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:07 pm

. I thought Florida was container country.
Oh, there are ways around the idea that you have to grow in containers in Florida. Raised beds (IF DONE RIGHT) can work great.
(The middle photo is round raised beds, open at the bottom. Not big containers.)


Marsha, Have you thought about your fill? Be careful that the mix is not too dense with poor drainage.


2020
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Round raised beds . NOT CONTAINERS .
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#46

Post: # 26086Unread post Ginger2778
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:29 pm

MsCowpea wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:07 pm
. I thought Florida was container country.
Oh, there are ways around the idea that you have to grow in containers in Florida. Raised beds (IF DONE RIGHT) can work great.


Marsha, Have you thought about your fill? Be careful that the mix is not too dense with poor drainage.



Jan 2019
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Jan 2020
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I'm thinking that I'm going to empty a lot of my Earthboxes into them, and order some custom blended soil my friend who runs an organic urban farm uses. Criswell Farms.
Elaine, I welcome your input on that, and anyone else who has successful raised beds.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#47

Post: # 26112Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:57 pm

That is absolutely great that you have a friend with experience with a particular mix and that he is actually a commercial grower.
I like to take advice from people like that. Too many people on internet and youtube videos give advice and they have no experience or very little. I am guessing your friend may not even have to add additional compost— just some type of organic fertilizer. That sounds like a good idea to mix in old earthbox soil with the good ‘stuff’ he recommends just to get the quantity of mix you will need. If the EarthBox soil , which would be broken down, makes it too water retentive you could always add more of whatever your friend recommends or composted pine bark or perlite or something. The worse thing is a poor draining mix!!! The opposite is you have to water a lot
so you don’t want that extreme either.


Places like Bushel Stop and their parent company Atlas Soil sell a mix for raised beds but people have to check out whats in it as they can be heavy on the Florida peat which is dense and heavy and cheap. I believe they told me years ago that the mix varies weekly.
I would rather order a custom mix than buy something they sell for raised beds. The compost they used in their mixes used to come from Palm Beach called
ALLGRO or something like that. But it is a bio-solid mix which isn’t allowed on organic farms so I decided to just make my own compost.

20 years ago I used to get nothing but coarse sand (70%) and soil/fl. peat (30%) and it was sterilized in this massive machine. That company went out of business. (I had the 70/30 tested one time and it was pretty lousy stuff.). But I would add compost and it was transformed. I learned this from organic farming class though he did say use 60/40 for veggies, 70/30 for herbs but I could only get the 70/30. Later on when I ordered it from Atlas I had them do a percentage of composted pine bark as well.

Even to this day I am using the same beds , I just add compost. But this year for the first time I am going to amend with some composted pine bark and maybe even a little peat.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#48

Post: # 26118Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:26 pm

(ADDED- I don’t think you are going to do this but just to clarify , if it was me I wouldn’t just dump a lot of old earthbox mix in the bottom and then good stuff on top. As you have used your soil for years and years that old mix would be broken down and water retentive and (I think) would interfere with the overall drainage-i would mix it with something. But that is just a thought, you can evaluate once you empty some. )
Last edited by MsCowpea on Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#49

Post: # 26119Unread post Ginger2778
Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:34 pm

MsCowpea wrote: Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:26 pm (ADDED- I don’t think you are going to do this but just to clarify , if it was me I wouldn’t just dump a lot of old earthbox mix in the bottom and then good stuff on top. As you have used your soil for years and years that old mix would be broken down and water retentive and (I think) would interfere with the overall drainage-i would mix it with something.
I will heed your advice! I was just going to dump the earthbox contents in. I sometimes reach to the bottom of the EBs just to see and it doesn't seem super wet or muddy, it has a moist consistency, not much different than the new stuff. Not sure why. Still, I'll take your word for the promix being broken down and might not drain too well, and I will for sure mix it with the organic mix from American something.
Bushel stop - I will never ever buy anything from them. It's like 80% sand, and they charge megabucks for it. No thanks. We got some at the UF garden this past season, the stuff was awful! The soil place Kevin the farmer uses is called American something. He gave me the name and number and the person to ask for, and the name of the particular mix he likes.
He has learned over time, but when I met him 7 years ago, he knew nothing! He did get a lot of advice about his urban farm from Michael Madfis. They use growbags, 15 gallon, called jackpots.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#50

Post: # 26145Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:32 pm

Ha ha, I am a sand fan (not 80% though) but you have to amend it heavily with compost and add other components. If you are paying for a nice, complete mix up front you don’t want to mess with that. It has to be coarse sand as well but as I said I learned a technique 20 years ago and I am sure there must be good mixes out there now such as the one your friend recommended. The mix you got at Bushel Stop sounds very crummy.

As you mentioned, you could do exactly as you had planned , but instead of nothing but old EB mix piled in the bottom, mix the old with some new, and then proceed as you were going to with more new mix on top.

You could always put some of the old mix in a regular container and water it. If it drains well maybe you don’t have to worry about it,
Also if you think it looks and feels OK , maybe it is. A broken down mix really looks broken down, the texture is different.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#51

Post: # 28171Unread post Ginger2778
Fri Aug 14, 2020 2:47 pm

Hi, progress!
So we spent most of the before 10 am and after 7 pm hours this week clearing, leveling and placing the raised beds. Shown are the 3 with the concrete blocks placed. The single bed outer dimensions are 4' X 8', the 2 longer beds are 4' X 10'. So now, I want to fill it, but first, questions: I know I want a liner and some cardboard at the base. What goes against the dirt? The landscape fabric, or the cardboard?
I have lots of Earthboxes to empty, but I know I want to use hay or straw bales over the bottom liner, then amended Earthbox promix. Which is better, hay, straw, or pine straw?
Would you all keep the bricks unfastened, and therefore portable, or fix them together, and if so, using what?
I think I want to paint them, maybe a milk chocolate color, light enough to stand out, but dark enough not show too much dirt on the outside. Should I paint them? What color would you all choose?
Lastly, there's an article online : UF/IFAS How to Build a Raised Bed Using Concrete Blocks. In that article it says to drive rebar down all the top holes to firm it. Do we need to do that?
Many thanks, I feel we are well on our way thanks to all you folks and your valuable input.
Also, the one bed thats in the shade gets about 4 hours full sun, we are going to put onions and broccoli in it because they like cooler weather.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#52

Post: # 28207Unread post eyegrotom
Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:25 pm

Hi. Great progress so far. Let me try to be helpful, I have a raised bed that I made with concrete block, mine is only one block high so it is just dry stacked with no support. with yours I would put a piece of rebar in each corner. I also fill the cells and plant things in them.
You want to put the landscape fabric in first than the cardboard. As for Hay or Straw you kind of have to worry about Weed seeds ( at least around here ).
Hope this helps Mike

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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#53

Post: # 28208Unread post Ginger2778
Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:40 pm

eyegrotom wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:25 pm Hi. Great progress so far. Let me try to be helpful, I have a raised bed that I made with concrete block, mine is only one block high so it is just dry stacked with no support. with yours I would put a piece of rebar in each corner. I also fill the cells and plant things in them.
You want to put the landscape fabric in first than the cardboard. As for Hay or Straw you kind of have to worry about Weed seeds ( at least around here ).
Hope this helps Mike
Mike, it helps a lot. Thank you so much for the answers. UF/IFAS says a piece of rebar in each cell, and I can already see the movement with just an accidental bump, so we will. I am so glad you took the time to give me answers,☺ Landscape fabric will be placed tomorrow, then the rebar.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#54

Post: # 28209Unread post MsCowpea
Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:46 pm

Good job! I don’t have any experience with most of your questions but just a few thoughts.

Our tallest beds were 1 foot and we just weed whacked the grass to nothing and filled. BUT I know that people always seem to line their raised beds no matter what they are made with. I guess to keep the material from leaching into the bed??? On the bottom I would just use cardboard. I don’t know about the sides —Maybe someone with experience could chime in.

If you are talking about true pine straw that is very expensive and not easy to get. You can find it easily in other southern areas that have a lot of real pines trees. Hay is more expensive than straw and has weed seeds. Both straw (or hay) will deteriorate anyway , which is Ok, but you would have to top the bed up with more mix as it sinks down.

I guess as far as painting, a lighter color might be better so the beds don’t heat up. I think I prefer concrete stain to paint but anything you do would require several coats.

There are other cool weather crops that can tolerate a little shade like broccoli. Lettuces and greens would appreciate a little shade.
Onions require certain amount of daylight. I would grow them in more sun but i don’t know how little sun they can tolerate- 4 hours doesn’t seem like much but I never tried so who knows until you experiment.
Since you volunteer at extension garden I know they must know to use short day onions in Florida ( and south) as our winter daylight hours are so short.
Last year the only little onion plants I could find were long day. You would get a green onion but no bulb with LD . But I traveled thru Gainesville And stopped at Lowe’s and they had short day.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#55

Post: # 28219Unread post Ginger2778
Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:58 am

MsCowpea wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:46 pm Good job! I don’t have any experience with most of your questions but just a few thoughts.

Our tallest beds were 1 foot and we just weed whacked the grass to nothing and filled. BUT I know that people always seem to line their raised beds no matter what they are made with. I guess to keep the material from leaching into the bed??? On the bottom I would just use cardboard. I don’t know about the sides —Maybe someone with experience could chime in.

If you are talking about true pine straw that is very expensive and not easy to get. You can find it easily in other southern areas that have a lot of real pines trees. Hay is more expensive than straw and has weed seeds. Both straw (or hay) will deteriorate anyway , which is Ok, but you would have to top the bed up with more mix as it sinks down.

I guess as far as painting, a lighter color might be better so the beds don’t heat up. I think I prefer concrete stain to paint but anything you do would require several coats.

There are other cool weather crops that can tolerate a little shade like broccoli. Lettuces and greens would appreciate a little shade.
Onions require certain amount of daylight. I would grow them in more sun but i don’t know how little sun they can tolerate- 4 hours doesn’t seem like much but I never tried so who knows until you experiment.
Since you volunteer at extension garden I know they must know to use short day onions in Florida ( and south) as our winter daylight hours are so short.
Last year the only little onion plants I could find were long day. You would get a green onion but no bulb with LD . But I traveled thru Gainesville And stopped at Lowe’s and they had short day.
I very much appreciate your thoughts, they are helpful.☺
Dixondale has excellent short day onions. I think you have to order in October which is fine. This bed does get filtered sun with the shade until about 5:30pm. I started onion seeds 2 weeks ago, Granex(the vidalia ones - short day) and another hybrid short day sweet that I am forgetting the name of. Also some short day red onions from seeds I got at Home Depot, but so far germination has been spotty and poor with them.
I'm only going to paint the top and outsides, but 2 coats max. We are thinking to do it with spray paint so maybe one coat might do it.
I actually had a row of landscape fabric in the garage, last time I used some was about 15 years ago but it's still good. Good to finally use some.
Pine straw might not be a good choice anyhow, because it makes things very acidic. We are leaning toward a bale of straw each. Starting to crank our compost back up too. I have a feeling Ill be buying some. I hate that Black Kow stuff. Junk!
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#56

Post: # 28231Unread post MsCowpea
Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:36 am

I have got onions at Dixondale only once over many years of trying. They are always sold out. I have tried over the years to get a good onion transplant from seeds using the usual methods. But the plants are always spindly and weak. Northern videos or Charles Dowding videos make it look so easy but the temps are in the 60s at night so they get nicer growth. Our nighttime temps are over 80. I tried inside but hate the lights, etc that setup requires. I have several granex types as well but haven’t planted them yet. Trying to think of a different way to do it. Years ago their was a guy in (I think) Palm Beach who grew lots of onions from seeds. Don’t know how he did it. The most successful I have been with onions is when I find the live plants like I did at Lowe’s. They didn’t bulb up huge and they are never as sweet as vidalia but we are still using them in cooking. They stored really well. You can get onion sets at nu-turf but they are not as good as the live plants IMO but will do in a pinch.

I can ask Derek to bring you some compost in the truck - just the equivalent of a couple 5 gal containers. You wouldn’t need much. It is only a horse manure/bedding and alfalfa hay mix. If you want to try it until you can get your own small compost system going. Or he could bring straight horse manure and bedding that you add kitchen scraps or something. Maybe just a small wheelbarrow worth of the stuff??? Let me know. I used to buy mushroom compost at the store in bags but haven’t done that in a long time. Can’t remember much about it. When do you get your mix delivery? It probably is a compost type mix or may have compost already in it. But you would need to replenish it with more compost at some point.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#57

Post: # 28442Unread post Ginger2778
Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:14 am

MsCowpea wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:36 am I have got onions at Dixondale only once over many years of trying. They are always sold out. I have tried over the years to get a good onion transplant from seeds using the usual methods. But the plants are always spindly and weak. Northern videos or Charles Dowding videos make it look so easy but the temps are in the 60s at night so they get nicer growth. Our nighttime temps are over 80. I tried inside but hate the lights, etc that setup requires. I have several granex types as well but haven’t planted them yet. Trying to think of a different way to do it. Years ago their was a guy in (I think) Palm Beach who grew lots of onions from seeds. Don’t know how he did it. The most successful I have been with onions is when I find the live plants like I did at Lowe’s. They didn’t bulb up huge and they are never as sweet as vidalia but we are still using them in cooking. They stored really well. You can get onion sets at nu-turf but they are not as good as the live plants IMO but will do in a pinch.

I can ask Derek to bring you some compost in the truck - just the equivalent of a couple 5 gal containers. You wouldn’t need much. It is only a horse manure/bedding and alfalfa hay mix. If you want to try it until you can get your own small compost system going. Or he could bring straight horse manure and bedding that you add kitchen scraps or something. Maybe just a small wheelbarrow worth of the stuff??? Let me know. I used to buy mushroom compost at the store in bags but haven’t done that in a long time. Can’t remember much about it. When do you get your mix delivery? It probably is a compost type mix or may have compost already in it. But you would need to replenish it with more compost at some point.
It does take 12 weeks for the seeds to develop into nice bulb onion transplants, and I'm doing it now, they are in their 3rd week and just starting to bulb. They don't really thicken and bulb until the 9th week. I have a light set up, I do it on my patio, which has a roof, and also a fan. Still gets hot though, but short day onion seedlings can take a little more start up heat. My largest grow light puts out a fair amount of heat too, still its OK. I never do sets, all you can hope for with those is small bulbed almost scallions(well, a little better than).

Nice of you to offer the compost(really!), but I think you don't actually have truly have enough for your own needs. This year I am going to buy some through my friend Kevin's recommendation, but I think we will use your compost bin idea to build one for next year. We can get a lot of grass clippings to help, because with all my Earthboxes, the yard service has to use the weed whacker in between the rows, and we can just rake it and add it. Ill also ask my yardman if he can save them for us, from other yards.
I'm not at the point of getting the mix yet, still doing final touches. The rebar and paint will be today, then it's time to order the mix Wednesday, because I will be an official poll watcher on Tuesday. If you or Derek want to see the mix when it arrives, I'll let you know.
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#58

Post: # 28445Unread post Growing Coastal
Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:04 am

Ginger, just be sure your yardman doesn't being you clippings from weed treated lawns. :shock:

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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#59

Post: # 28446Unread post Ginger2778
Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:15 am

Growing Coastal wrote: Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:04 am Ginger, just be sure your yardman doesn't being you clippings from weed treated lawns. :shock:
Oh right!!! Thank you, I won't even ask him!
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Re: Building a Raised Bed

#60

Post: # 28509Unread post ponyexpress
Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:01 am

MsCowpea wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:36 am I have got onions at Dixondale only once over many years of trying. They are always sold out.
I had no trouble ordering from them last year. I ordered in December but they were still taking orders in April 2020. They will resume taking orders again this year sometime in October.
MsCowpea wrote: Sat Aug 15, 2020 8:36 am I have tried over the years to get a good onion transplant from seeds using the usual methods. But the plants are always spindly and weak. Northern videos or Charles Dowding videos make it look so easy but the temps are in the 60s at night so they get nicer growth. Our nighttime temps are over 80. I tried inside but hate the lights, etc that setup requires. I have several granex types as well but haven’t planted them yet. Trying to think of a different way to do it.
Dixondale plants their seeds direct in the field. One of their short day varieties, Texas Legend, is planted on Oct 15. I would think you direct seed in your garden in October, overwinter, and harvest in March/April. If you have problem with germination, I suggest making sure your soil is kept moist by lightly covering with some straw mulch and watering it daily.

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