EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

MsCowpea
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#201

Post: # 22483Unread post MsCowpea
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:43 am

Got the analysis back on my post-plant medium taken from EB. High pH (8.09) and high sodium. Haven’t done a water analysis of my filtered well water in a long time and I have since replaced my filtration system so I should do it again to see if my water is impacting those numbers. The water comes from a limestone aquifer.

I need to read up on understanding potting soil testing to decipher all the test.

I have seen a filtration gizmo that fits on the hose - will look into that after I get the water tested.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#202

Post: # 22485Unread post MsCowpea
Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:47 am

Has anyone used calcium nitrate (snack) with organic fertilizer?
Do you feel it increased yield or helped the plant stay productive longer as well as prevent blossom end rot?
Any side by side trials-no Ca vs Ca?
That would be the only way to note any flavor differences.
It is such a popular addition. Wondered how it paired with organic fertilizer?
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#203

Post: # 22496Unread post Ginger2778
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:50 pm

MsCowpea wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:47 am Has anyone used calcium nitrate (snack) with organic fertilizer?
Do you feel it increased yield or helped the plant stay productive longer as well as prevent blossom end rot?
Any side by side trials-no Ca vs Ca?
That would be the only way to note any flavor differences.
It is such a popular addition. Wondered how it paired with organic fertilizer?
I always have paired mine with Tomato Tone, and every time I add the Ca(NO3)2, the blossoms the plant makes are over the top. I never understood that, as its not giving it any more P or K, but it might have to do with releasing and making those elements more available from the Tomato Tone. Especially the P? I actually don't know, just conjecture. I haven't really done side by side trials,musing 2 plants from same set of seeds. I suppose to do that it would have to be saved seeds from the same fruit, because you would have no way to know all the seeds are from the same fruit/plant with a commercial packet of seeds.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#204

Post: # 22497Unread post Ginger2778
Sun Jun 14, 2020 2:51 pm

MsCowpea wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2020 11:43 am Got the analysis back on my post-plant medium taken from EB. High pH (8.09) and high sodium. Chlorine above acceptable level. Haven’t done a water analysis of my filtered well water in a long time and I have since replaced my filtration system so I should do it again to see if my water is impacting those numbers. The water comes from a limestone aquifer.

I need to read up on understanding potting soil testing to decipher all the test.

I have seen a filtration gizmo that fits on the hose - will look into that after I get the water tested.
That pH is interesting. Really! And why would the sodium be so high. What are you using with high salts? You have my attention!
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#205

Post: # 22506Unread post MsCowpea
Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:16 pm

I thought about the fertilizer and haven’t precluded it. Though this mix had the top fertilizer strip removed, then had been heavily rained on, and then flushed twice with my own water. I did that because I actually wanted to get rid of any salt from the fertilizer. When I sent in the sample I didn’t really want the ‘old fertilizer’ to taint the results so that is why I removed a fair amount on top and proceeded with the rinses.

The pH I contribute to my well water though I need to get it tested again. ( and they would also test sodium levels). If I understand it correctly, alkalinity tests the level of calcium carbonate in your water and that levels impacts pH. High alkalinity, higher pH changes withIn your potting mix. And our water comes from limestone aquifers. I don’t know what my filter filters out or leaves in. It is NOT a reverse osmosis system.

What is strange is I did this test 5 years ago and the pH was around 7 . I didn’t get any recommendations with either test just optimal levels to compare with your results. I did change the filtration system.

Calcium Nitrate (The Snack):
I don’t really go to the length of saving seeds from the same tomato to look at comparisons. If anybody just took 2 plants of the same variety and compared them that would be great. Or even without a comparison just their opinion on the calcium nitrate would be great as they compare it to the times they didn’t use it. Did it increase yield or length of productivity? Or was it just to prevent BER? I have some but never used it.
Debating to bother with it and use it as a synthetic supplement, or use the other , more balanced, synthetic supplements that I have. Whichever one to be compared to an organic supplement.

(Added: that is interesting that it increased your blooms which would be very good but I remember you thinking that it might have contributed a grassy flavor as well so I don’t know what to think about it. It is hard to tell what causes what with these things.)
Last edited by MsCowpea on Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#206

Post: # 22513Unread post MsCowpea
Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:12 pm

I would retest but that was an expensive test as I had to send it out of state. Univ. Of Fl only tests potting medium of huge commercial growers.

I even double checked my potting mix to make sure it had no coir though that was an issue (high salts) a long time ago and I don’t think it is a problem now.
It does not have coir.

I read that lettuce is super sensitive to salt but tomatoes are not. As a matter of fact some salts supposedly improve tomato flavor. I even bought Sea 90 for that reason though I have yet to use it. It has minerals and trace elements derived from sea water.
There is also a theory that says the reason tomatoes tasted better long ago was they were using fertilizer like Chilean nitrate (sodium nitrate).
Or so I read some place on the internet. But my levels are beyond what is recommended.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#207

Post: # 22521Unread post Barb_FL
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:47 pm

That is a really high PH for a peat based mix. It must be your water. Do you have a PH tester? You can easily test your water. I test randomly throughout the season, with the General Hydroponic drops. I had a cheap PH meter at one time, but really never trusted the results.

Calcium Nitrate should not alter the PH at all.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#208

Post: # 22528Unread post Ginger2778
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:51 am

This is a pretty easy to understand article on the effect of nitrate fertilizers, and even ammonium ones. Basically they all get taken up by the plant as nitrate, but the ammonium type release an H+ ion, overall effect is a slightly lower pH, so slightly acid, which is desirable for tomatoes. The already nitrate ones such as calcium nitrate just get taken up by the plant, no H+ ion relese.
https://vegcropshotline.org/article/eff ... ic%20range.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#209

Post: # 22544Unread post Growing Coastal
Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:00 am

I have used calcium nitrate + magnesium only a couple of years when plants seemed to go downhill later on in the season. After using it AND lowering the ph in the water I got good results. The cheaper ph meter I have showed too high ph and lowering it with acid helped. Our tap water reads a little high, probably getting higher as our water changes in summer. I also use liquid fertilizer then, too, 0-10-10.
The calcium nitrate and lowering the ph gave them the boost they needed to do well until the end of the season. Plants are grown in containers though not EBs.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#210

Post: # 22549Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:49 am

I think the high pH of the used medium is due in part to the well water as it probably has a fair amount of calcium carbonate. PLUS I used dolomite per EB instructions. A peat based mixed is supposed to go more acidic as it breaks down so you add dolomite but I have read that your irrigation water can effect this depending on its alkalinity. And some types of fertilizer (Ammonium nitrate ) lower pH as Marsha’s article mentions. Others would raise it. I will check the ingredients on the fertilizer used on this box.

I have always used the dolomite with no issues all the years we have been here - had a pH of 7 once never 8 that I know of .
I didn’t reuse the mix all those years. Dumped it and mixed in compost, etc etc to fill regular containers.

When refreshing these boxes I would have used very little dolomite because at a lecture at the Research Center they said to use only 1/3 of the dolomite that comes in the kit when reusing but now have to rethink even that small amount.

My pH meters are not functioning though one just needs calibration fluid. The other was dropped hard and now acts crazy.
I will get one working. I think I can make a 50/50 slurry of potting mix and distilled water to test pH.

When I mentioned retesting was mainly thinking about sodium. The test also shows a low EC and very low nutrient levels so I am not understanding the high sodium level at all. With a low EC something I read said the sodium would be insoluble otherwise soluble salts would be picked up with the EC meter. But I really don’t have the knowledge to understand any of this.

I took Hydroponic workshop few months ago I will try and email the instructor though they may not be working yet due to COVID 19.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#211

Post: # 22560Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:30 pm

Marsha’s article made me want to go back and check what kind of nitrogen was in the fertilizer I used in this box.
It was primarily ammonium- nitrate based so that would have not raised the pH.

BUT two ingredients caught my eye -it was PALM ASH and oyster shell. I knew from previous experience that palm ash is very alkaline. It is used when you want to raise acidity and for potassium. I once consider using it for the K but couldn’t because my soil already has a higher ph. I just looked it up and it’s pH is 12!

Plus it contained oyster shell to boot.

Thanks Marsha for bringing up fertilizer connection to pH!! That made me look at the bag. Since I flushed and flushed the Mix to get out any salts it didn’t occur to me it had those types of ingredients that would effect pH. The fertilizer was from Urban Farms called Bio-active. (Amended - Would this mean I dont have to use dolomite when using it? Seems like it ( if you also take into account my well water). but probably the best way to tell is to test some other boxes as well to see if the only really high pH is Bio Active.

(***Added: it does have cotton seed meal which brings down pH and the nitrogen source is ammonium nitrate 4.5 percent which also would lower pH. Maybe these ingredients and others balance out the high pH ingredients.)***

Now as far as the sodium , it says 80 parts per million. I can’t find any guideline on this-none was given. The sodium percentage of the EC is 26.6 %. Guidelines says that sodium and chorine should be below 10% so chorine is OK after all as it is 4.21%. I was looking at that elevated percentage of 26.6 % which is way beyond 10% but since the EC is only .43 maybe means it is still a small amount??? I will try and find out if the actual 80 parts per million is high or not.

Unfortunately, unlike soil tests where you can pay extra for recommendations , you are left to figure out a potting mix test on your own.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#212

Post: # 22565Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:52 pm

Forgot something important. At the end of the season when everything was dead or dying I stopped tracking what supplements I was using
in all but a few boxes. This particular box MAY have gotten several doses of Age Old Grow, or Bloom , or something else. Marsha told me she was getting new growth with additional nitrogen so I thought I would try it on some dying boxes but it didn’t help at all. They were too far gone. I don’t know what effect, if any, that would have on the potting mix test.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#213

Post: # 22566Unread post Ginger2778
Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:06 pm

MsCowpea wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:49 am I think the high pH of the used medium is due in part to the well water as it probably has a fair amount of calcium carbonate. PLUS I used dolomite per EB instructions. A peat based mixed is supposed to go more acidic as it breaks down so you add dolomite but I have read that your irrigation water can effect this depending on its alkalinity. And some types of fertilizer (Ammonium nitrate ) lower pH as Marsha’s article mentions. Others would raise it. I will check the ingredients on the fertilizer used on this box.

I have always used the dolomite with no issues all the years we have been here - had a pH of 7 once never 8 that I know of .
I didn’t reuse the mix all those years. Dumped it and mixed in compost, etc etc to fill regular containers.

When refreshing these boxes I would have used very little dolomite because at a lecture at the Research Center they said to use only 1/3 of the dolomite that comes in the kit when reusing but now have to rethink even that small amount.

My pH meters are not functioning though one just needs calibration fluid. The other was dropped hard and now acts crazy.
I will get one working. I think I can make a 50/50 slurry of potting mix and distilled water to test pH.

When I mentioned retesting was mainly thinking about sodium. The test also shows a low EC and very low nutrient levels so I am not understanding the high sodium level at all. With a low EC something I read said the sodium would be insoluble otherwise soluble salts would be picked up with the EC meter. But I really don’t have the knowledge to understand any of this.

I took Hydroponic workshop few months ago I will try and email the instructor though they may not be working yet due to COVID 19.
I wouldn't go with no dolomite in containers, because there is no other calcium source. And you need one since you change your mix every year. It really does have a nutrient purpose as well as pH adjustment, in a container.
I would never use the dolomite lime in our soil.
Glad you got something ftom that article. Barb's comment about Ca(NO3)2 not raising pH made me want to read about it, so really this is her idea, lol! I thoughtnit was a pretty interesting article.
Sulfur powder acidifies, and it's an organic farming ingredient. Plants need some sulfur as a micronutrient. Added bonus - sulfur kills TRMs, and spider mites too.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#214

Post: # 22578Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:03 pm

Forgot to mention that Bio active does have calcium 3.6% and mg .8 %.

You may be right about the dolomite though. I have always used it with no obvious problems. I need to see pH of other boxes to see if they are all close to pH 8 or just the one. Maybe three months ago the pH was 7 and the dolomite is still slowly releasing???

I did 2 tests 5 years ago , from an organic box (8-3-5) and from a synthetic box (5-10-10 ) and pH was identical- something like pH 7.2. I think my well water plus the dolomite keeps it on the high side.

I already got a couple more bags of Urban Farms BioActive as I liked it so will be experimenting with it again along with a few others.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#215

Post: # 22594Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:57 pm

Growing Coastal. Thanks for your opinion on calcium nitrate plus magnesium. I think I will go ahead and use it as a supplement in at least one Earthbox and one regular container since it is a popular addition. Garden Doc, who came up with the practice, originally used with 10-10-10 which doesn’t have any calcium. I never understood why a more balanced tomato formula with more potassium (plus calcium) wouldn’t be better but people must find it a worthwhile addition. I will use it with organic fertilizer and see if it extends the season and increases yield. Compare the taste as well.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#216

Post: # 22601Unread post Growing Coastal
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:04 pm

Just adding that everything else I use in my tomato pots is all organic, too. It goes against the grain to use non organics but there is no point in watching plants perform poorly.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#217

Post: # 22602Unread post Barb_FL
Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:17 pm

Could it be that your mix had a lower PH and the constant watering to rid it of the fertz was the cause of the high ph?

---
Elaine - where do you buy the Mountain Magic seeds? I think I will try them in the fall.

I'm taking down all my plants; then cleanup and solarize hopefully done by June 30th.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#218

Post: # 22609Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:53 pm

Barb, I don’t know. Not sure my water could raise it that high. I let it get rained on then flushed it twice. When I get my meter working I will try and test a few more boxes. And will test my water too.

Mountain Magic:
I get the same seeds from multiple places so I need to check.

It is a great feeling getting rid of all dead or dying plants. Huge job.

Growing coastal, glad you told me you used it with organic fertilizer . Goes against my grain too so hope one of the new organic supplements I am trying can compete with whatever the calcium nitrate does. And I agree about poorly performing plants. Author Charles Wilber got record breaking yields inground and in containers using organic inputs so it can be done.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#219

Post: # 22616Unread post Ginger2778
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:00 am

We are still breaking down Earthboxes, all the tomatoes are gone, but the firring strips used to stabilize them(footers for wind resistance) !pare needing to be pulled, and all the Tomato cages inside need to be cleaned and stacked(2 in each earthbox), then the outer earthbox cages loosened(cut zip ties) and solarizing the boxes. Home Depot had 55 gallon clear Husky bags 3 mil thickness, about $34. They are a 55 count so one package will do me.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#220

Post: # 22631Unread post Barb_FL
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:35 am

Thanks for the tip on HD carrying the clear Husky bags. The HD here just had the black ones - 55 gallon is really large; I've always gone with the 42 gallon size which allows the earthbox to slide in and enough room for to tie off.

Last year I left the T-Posts as is and was only going to remove them if a hurricane was coming. That saved some time this season not having to do it again.

Our yard waste gets picked up on Weds, so I make sure I have both cans filled. I think I have all the large tomato plants pulled already. I end up taking the cages off because it is so much easier to pull the plant out.

----
Elaine, Marsha - JMO but other than bugs, I think the earthboxes stop producing because the reservoir gets and stays so warm. I pulled an Earthbox early on (April) and the potting mix was hot.

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