EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

Barb_FL
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#121

Post: # 11423Unread post Barb_FL
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:00 pm

So did GardenDoc totally skip the dry fertz - just MG once per week, and the snack every other week?

I've skipped the dry fertz but did TTF almost daily - taste/production was great.

Ginny (another Florida grower) wrote to TTF and they suggested a 3 day on / 2 ??? day off regimen.

MsCowpea
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#122

Post: # 11432Unread post MsCowpea
Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:02 pm

Did Doc skip the dry fertilizer?

No, he would still be using his 1 cup of 10-10-10 and then start the supplementation. ( at least that is how I see it)
*** but dont know for sure. He does say he will be strictly using the MG and Ca. — but I took that to mean on top of his usual one cup of fertilizer. Could he mean he is ONLY using the MG and Ca. ? — that is such a little amount of fertilizer. ???

Barb, when you did the TTF with no strip how much would go down the tube? You said taste and production was great-
was there something about it that you decided you’d still like to keep searching for a better fertilizer solution. Was it the time involved because of the everyday thing?
Last edited by MsCowpea on Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#123

Post: # 11433Unread post Barb_FL
Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:37 pm

On the TTF down the tube, I was still measuring it - 1 TBLS per gallon and pouring the pre-mixed water down the tube. (Same as I did with the Masterblend solution) so it was time consuming.

I should retry it again in the fall with TTF just straight down the tube, then add water - the no-mix part is what I love about MegaCrop.

I know now that some of my EB take the full 3 gallons of water, so I will judge by the leaves. Maybe do the 3 on, 2 off to save some $ on fertz.

-----
I've never used 10-10-10 - I have lots of the 7-7-7 EB packs around that I've opened for the covers /shower caps. When I first started with EB, I even bought the EB potting mix. I only did that for a couple of boxes, but went on with the replant kits for a long time.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#124

Post: # 11448Unread post MsCowpea
Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:22 pm

That premixing and then pouring down the tube is very time consuming as you say, I did this a couple of times with the hydroponic fertilizer and then adjusted pH to proper level to boot. Way too much trouble.

Matter of fact I am looking on Amazon for a plastic bottle that is called measure and pour for my liquid fertilizer. (Correct name bettix.) You can use it for liquor. You can get a measured amount in the top the bottle and then (I hope) easy to pour it down the tube. Got the idea from my gas additive container which does this. I want it food safe and one where I can get different measurements.
Just looking at them now. Still thinking about it. The alternative is measure it out in a spoon (but my hands shake) then use a funnel. I never used a funnel and was losing a bit every time i tried to get it down the tube. Dry is easier, of course, just pour it in.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#125

Post: # 11451Unread post MsCowpea
Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:30 pm

Barb, wonder if you could use 1 cup of that 7-7-7 and 2 cups of say, BioActive dry granular or TT and skip the synthetic supplementation
entirely. Thinking that the taste would be good and the plant would have nutrients available immediately. Or go ahead and supplement but hold off for a month or two as it just wouldn’t need the extra fertilizer yet. (Or 1/2 cup 7-7-7 may do it, not sure)

( I did do my first organic vs synthetic in a earthbox using their 7-7-7 and organic EB fertilizer. Much preferred the organic and it wasn’t just a little difference.
That is why I thought combining the two might be better.)
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#126

Post: # 11455Unread post Barb_FL
Fri Feb 21, 2020 2:57 pm

I'm not going to mix 7-7-7 with BioActive; BioActive is too good on it's own.
----
Premixing and Ph-ing is a drag. I found with the Masterblend formula, if I let it sit in the sun outside for hours / overnight, it would have the perfect PH for tomatoes. Actually, the premixing isn't bad, it's the pouring of the premix.
----
I used to elevate everything I grew in root pouches - old bunny cage sides sitting on bricks and would overwater / overfeed (this was TTF). Plants /tomatoes were amazing too. It was also probably the ultimate in the 'air-pruning' - root pouches; The root pouches would get kind of gross at the end of the season but not the moss I get growing now when they sit on slabs. An unintended consequence was my water bill and fertz $ per plant were a lot more than growing in an EB.

This year I grew more in EB than ever before and barely any change in the the water bill. Earthboxes really save on the water usage.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#127

Post: # 11460Unread post MsCowpea
Fri Feb 21, 2020 3:04 pm

. BioActive is too good on it's own.
That is true , never thought about that. It is expensive too. Maybe the cheapest organic would do , otherwise what will you do with all the 7-7-7 :) ?
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#128

Post: # 11551Unread post Bronx
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:40 am

Sorry, I meant 2 teaspoons calcium nitrate, not tablespoons.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#129

Post: # 11568Unread post Ginger2778
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:27 am

Bronx wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:40 am Sorry, I meant 2 teaspoons calcium nitrate, not tablespoons.
Thats a lot better, but most recommend 1 teaspoon per week, just FYI.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#130

Post: # 11586Unread post MsCowpea
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:44 pm

Barb, when I used the TTF as a supplement I used 4 tbls down the tube (maybe a little spilled) and then added water. I didn’t premix it. I figured the EB held 3 gallons and this would be about right.
Did this once a week as this seemed to be what everyone was doing with supplementation. Everything got so diseased I don’t know if it increased production or not. Though I am still getting lots of tomatoes from some of these boxes. The plants looked really good until they looked awful. :lol:

On some totally organic boxes I used a full 1/2 cup of Big Bloom so this required a lot and it is expensive. I saw lots of new little tomatoes but again with the diseases spreading fast couldn’t really tell what was what. I am still getting a fair amount of tomatoes with these too. I presume these products were impacting the boxes but will have to try again next year with a few more experiments.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#131

Post: # 11979Unread post Bronx
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:29 pm

Ginger2778 wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:27 am
Bronx wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:40 am Sorry, I meant 2 teaspoons calcium nitrate, not tablespoons.
Thats a lot better, but most recommend 1 teaspoon per week, just FYI.
Thanks for the info, I'll definately cut back this year. Did using so mch cause any damage to the plant or do you think it reduced the amount of fruit because of all the nitrogen I was adding to the container?

Yeah, I may have been overzealous with my calcium nitrate applications. I started using it when I had an awful problem with BER on a Big Beef plant a few years ago. Had practically no harvest from that plant because of it. Soured me on ever growing Big Beef again.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#132

Post: # 12035Unread post Barb_FL
Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:21 pm

MsCowpea wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:44 pm Barb, when I used the TTF as a supplement I used 4 tbls down the tube (maybe a little spilled) and then added water. I didn’t premix it. I figured the EB held 3 gallons and this would be about right.
Did this once a week as this seemed to be what everyone was doing with supplementation. Everything got so diseased I don’t know if it increased production or not. Though I am still getting lots of tomatoes from some of these boxes. The plants looked really good until they looked awful. :lol:
I wouldn't ever go over 3 TBLS down the EB at one time ; TTF says to use 1 TBLS per gallon. The first time it is easy because it's just water down there. If you are supplementing just once per week, then I see no problems. I would do more often though.

I do have some plants that take the entire 3 gallons daily, so that would be super easy to do TTF recommended 3 days on, 3 days off (which basically flushes).

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#133

Post: # 12038Unread post MsCowpea
Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:44 pm

. I do have some plants that take the entire 3 gallons daily, so that would be super easy to do TTF recommended 3 days on, 3 days off (which basically flushes).

Yes, that would work. My EBs also drink up all the water on a daily basis.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#134

Post: # 12044Unread post Ginger2778
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:22 pm

When I was using TTF, I used3 Tbls per Earthbox, down the tube. It used up the TTF really fast, and I found it to be quite costly compared to TT as a strip, then supplementing at that time with the snack, and the required Epsom salt. I dont think my results were any better with either method, except taste(grassy in a few)was worse with the snack. This year, only used the snack once, and disease is off the charts, but actually so is taste.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#135

Post: # 12063Unread post Barb_FL
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:30 pm

Marsha - do you think your plants will recover from the disease? Do you think having the extra nitrogen helped fend off the diseases? or would it happen anyway so at least they taste great. Are you still using the Jacks(?) liquid?

Where I had the Jewish and Lynda's Aunt Ukraine (not sure if that is exact name) and another EB with 2 determinate plants got obliterated with that late January storm. The other day I dumped the Jewish and Ukraine box and the roots were extensive and nice. The other box, I did nothing with, never watered or fed since that day, and all this perfectly disease-free green emerged. I was able to remove all the dead stuff with my hands. My point is that the TT must have done its' job and fed them.

Crappy weather again - rain, wind, but won't get as cold as January.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#136

Post: # 12068Unread post Barb_FL
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:42 pm

On the TTF - each gallon makes 256 gallons - so if 3 days on, 3 off, that is roughly 9 gallons per week per EB if needed the full doze (or 28 Earthboxes per TTF gallon). So weekly it would cost $34.xx - $39.99 to feed 28 Earthboxes the full recommendation. WOW!!! that would get really expensive for your 46?? EBs. Remember when I did the fertz. cost breakdown; I should find it, but TTF was not near the most expensive.

The $34.xx was buying the 4 pack and paying for shipping. Comes to .136 per gallon or $1.23 per earthbox per week. But it takes awhile for the plants to get that large/healthy to require so much fluid.

In comparison, MegaCrop costs $.031 per gallon. Math: Including shipping $75 for 22.7 lbs or (10,296 grams) makes 2400 gallons - so 4.25 grams per gallon. I have to weigh it to see how many grams I'm using as I just scoop it in. Sometimes the full scoop, other times, less.

ETA: I went back and weighed the minimum I was putting down the tube and it was 20 oz vs 12.75 so 56% more. So for a 'dry reservoir' it should have been $.093 per day but my minimum was $.15. Today for the EB that have been getting MC, got the lessor/recommended amount. I'm trying an experiment and gave some EB that I probably will be replacing (the ones that were hit late January) with the Kelp/Fulvic/Humic/Amino combo (like Extreme blend from Kelp4less) down the tube. Usually when I do something like this or teas, or even Kelp I water/feed from the top.

-----
I found the old TTF / Earthbox discussion on TV and people were reporting fantastic results using way less TTF. I read some of my own remarks back then (2016) and even back then I admitted I was 'fertilizer obsessed".

One thing in favor of TTF is that you know when buying the product it will be fresh.

----
Sounds like a good experiment for the next season. TTF (3 on/3 off), vs TTF weekly/bi-weekly, vs Other.

One thing for sure, growing tomatoes in Florida is not cheap.
Last edited by Barb_FL on Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#137

Post: # 12076Unread post MsCowpea
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:50 pm

It would be much cheaper to just use a tomato-type soluble if you are not going for a strictly organic method. A tomato- water soluble fertilizer would give more of a range of needed nutrients than just using calcium nitrate. (I guess it would be the same tsp. down the tube or would it be
per gallon? Marsha, did you just use a tsp of Jacks. Did you end up using anything after the Jacks?)

Tomato Tone has calcium. If someone has no BER
maybe they are getting enough calcium from the strip and their water depending on where they live. Perhaps a regular tomato-type soluble once a week would be sufficient. Or do the Ca as well every other week (particularly w 10-10-10) . Gardendoc was going to try this .

I just couldn’t keep up with something that requires multiple inputs a week . I don’t even want the weekly thing but if something proved to be a
valuable addition that extended the season and increased production than it would be worth considering.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#138

Post: # 12584Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:16 am

Forgot to say that I do think the Mega Crop would be just as good as any tomato water soluble (possibly even better) as it has the calcium and the higher potassium but it also has kelp. I ordered the sample. Along with TTF , Mega Crop would be for the boxes that are not strictly organic.

When figuring costs for TTF would you have to use the full recommendations straight from the beginning of the setup like people do? (This would go for any fertilizer as well.). The box would have a fertilizer strip that is working for quite some time as you can see from the pics of my boxes. The ones with just the strip looked great and had lots of tomatoes for quite some time (3 months). Could you start supplementing with fertilizer , say, 2 months after planting? (Or one month? Or ?? ) That would save a lot of money.
The conventional/syn. supplements have nutrients that are immediately available so uptake would be fast whenever you did start.

That was the impression that I got from the EB Research Center where it was suggested you supplement w/ MG when you thought the boxes had run out of nutrients not before. The idea of starting supplementation from the get go came from the calcium nitrate ‘snack’ idea.

Barb, I also read what Garden Doc said again about using MG and Ca. I thought he meant with his 1 cup of 10-10-10 but he did say he was strictly using the MG and Ca. Could he have meant with no strip? 1 tsp once a week in a 3 gallon reservoir doesn’t seem like much. (Plus the Ca on alternate weeks.) One thing for sure synthetic MG is the cheapest input by far of anything. (I am not a fan of an all synthetic box
(Ex. 7-7-7 or 10-10-10) even though it may do great. At least with a combination approach you are getting a wider range of nutrients. But everyone has their own preferences based on their own experiences.)

I remember reading an article (I think from Univ Of Fl. EDIS IFAS) discussing poor flavor in tomatoes and one of the causes was too much fertilizer.
And look what Charles Wilber accomplished with mostly compost (hundred pounds of tomatoes from a container). The trick is to give the plants all the nutrients it needs but don’t over fertilize.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Fri Mar 06, 2020 8:15 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#139

Post: # 12694Unread post Barb_FL
Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:48 pm

I just posted on TV asking Raybo (creater of the Earthtainer) what he uses for fertilizer? If and at what point does he supplement and with what. He has posted pictures of his tomato plants on a yearly log there and his plants look great. I will report back if I hear anything.

In reading through building the ET, I read that he covers the screen with a good quality weed barrier so the roots don't get down in the reservoir. BTW - I took down one of my EB plants - stopped watering a few days ago and it had massive roots in the EB and reservoir.

Except for one section, my plants continue to get beat up by wind. Today on all the beat up ones in EB, I put a tiny amount of soluble kelp down the tube, then added water. I first estimated the amount I would use and filled 2-3 gallons of water in a bucket to see what it would look like in the reservoir.

-----
ETA - I heard back from Raybo and he uses a generic 10-10-10 with a feeding of fish emulsion a couple of times over the season.

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Re: EarthBox Fertilizer Comparisons 2020

#140

Post: # 13479Unread post MsCowpea
Tue Mar 10, 2020 9:38 pm

This Mountain Magic hybrid is still doing considerably well while others have already been removed. Extremely productive -I have already picked off many tomatoes. MM is one of my favorite tomatoes to grow.
It is a half organic (Tomato Tone 1 1/2 cups) and half synthetic (1 cup ) in the strip which may explain why it is still hanging in there. It was supplemented as well, mainly Texas Tomato Food (until I ran out) then this and that.

I really really like the flavor of MM . Sweet. The brix on this one was not quite 8. ( same as the organic MM). The flavor was equal to the all organic box. It was different but equal. The skin is firm but not too bad. I love the golf ball size. This got knocked over by wind recently so I did lose a few tomatoes. Johnny’s seeds says “High resistance to Fusarium wilt races 1, 2, and 3, late blight, and Verticillium wilt; and intermediate resistance to early blight. ”. Any degree of early blight resistance is important to me. I have grown MM ever since it came out.

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