Shule's 2021 garden grow log

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PlainJane
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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#21

Post: # 46611Unread post PlainJane
Wed May 12, 2021 6:20 am

I’m growing Aunt Ginny’s Purple for the first time and darn - it’s a blight magnet. Hoping to still get some fruit.
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Shule
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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#22

Post: # 46669Unread post Shule
Wed May 12, 2021 11:43 pm

[mention]PlainJane[/mention]
That's good to know. Blight isn't usually a problem in my garden. I just hope it's not a virus magnet. I thought maybe I saw a virus in the garden late last year where I planted it (notwithstanding it's a really good piece of ground where I've had very prolific tomatoes). So, we'll see.

Speaking of viruses, I'm really curious what happens if you do this:
* Save seeds from virus-infected fruit.
* Optionally zap the seeds with a Z4EX. (Which may or may not destroy the virus.)
* Plant the seeds in the same virus-infected soil.
* Repeat for a few generations.

I'm curious if the plant will develop resistance to the virus over generations. I've never heard of anyone trying it.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#23

Post: # 46670Unread post Shule
Wed May 12, 2021 11:52 pm

Okay, so, about an hour ago, I finished transplanting and watering the rest of my tomatoes, except the following:

Napoli, 2019
Napoli, 2020 (just started sprouting yesterday or so)
Napoli cross B
Stick
Sprite (it just sprouted from the replant)
Matina (hasn't sprouted, yet, since I replanted it)

Most of the tomatoes shouldn't be as crowded, this year. They're pretty spread out across the back garden. I haven't put any out the front, yet, this year.

I'm planning to dig up some wonderberry volunteers and transplant them in a row by where the peas were last year (where I had tomatoes). I'll probably have about six spots of them (maybe just four or five).

I haven't transplanted any peppers, Morelle De Balbis, or West India burr gherkins, yet.

I haven't even planted the watermelons and muskmelons, yet, but I should do that tomorrow.

SunOrange F2 died, apparently. I'm not sure when that happened. But, I've got SunGold F1, and plenty of F2s/F3s in the Sun series.

I somehow severed Terhune at transplant time, but it has root nodules on its stem; so, I'm hopeful that it might live. Just in case it doesn't, though, I divided off a third Japanese Black Trifele and planted it with it. If Matina ever sprouts, maybe I'll put it where that is instead.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#24

Post: # 46672Unread post Shule
Thu May 13, 2021 1:24 am

Okay, I transplanted some wonderberry volunteers (a row of four; actually, I put several in each spot, in order to increase the odds of a successful and vigorous transplant--I plan to thin them later).

I put buckets by Terhune to block the sun (so it'll have a better chance at getting roots). This is my second year trying to grow Terhune (I don't want to have to do a third, unless it's from my own saved seeds).

The direct-seeded (under a milk jug) Amana Orange plants are looking revived. They were a bit wilted after their first day in the sun without a milk jug over them.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#25

Post: # 46678Unread post Rockoe10
Thu May 13, 2021 6:04 am

Shule wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:43 pm @PlainJane
That's good to know. Blight isn't usually a problem in my garden. I just hope it's not a virus magnet. I thought maybe I saw a virus in the garden late last year where I planted it (notwithstanding it's a really good piece of ground where I've had very prolific tomatoes). So, we'll see.

Speaking of viruses, I'm really curious what happens if you do this:
* Save seeds from virus-infected fruit.
* Optionally zap the seeds with a Z4EX. (Which may or may not destroy the virus.)
* Plant the seeds in the same virus-infected soil.
* Repeat for a few generations.

I'm curious if the plant will develop resistance to the virus over generations. I've never heard of anyone trying it.
This could work, in a couple different ways. As you probably know, epigenetics would be the first to affect the progeny. That is, the ways certain genes are turned on/off is passed on to the next generation to improve the odds of success. Then, there is the small chance for mutations. Most times it is harmful, but in even smaller occasions there is a change that would give the plant resistance to the virus.

If you go are serious about trying this, you may be better off making a cross with a plant that is known to have resistance to the virus. Then making back crosses with the preferred variety each year. Saving only the seeds of the plants that showed little to no signs of the virus. This way, you select for the genes that resist the virus, while also bringing back 99% of the genetics of the original variety.
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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#26

Post: # 46795Unread post Shule
Sat May 15, 2021 1:19 am

[mention]Rockoe10[/mention]
I'm also considering a controversial idea: The idea that plants have immune systems kind of sort of analogous to human immune systems. It was once believed that they had no such capabilities, but I've read some more recent things that indicate they do have some kind of ability there (whether or not to the extent that humans do). So, basically, I think that idea should be tested rigorously (not necessarily by me, but if I have to deal with a virus anyway, I figure I might as well do some experimentation).

Whether or not plants have an immune system, per se, they do seem to adapt to specific kinds of physical stress, and a virus is a kind of physical stress--albeit, an internal one.

But yeah, if the virus persists, I plan to find out which varieties resist it. It's hard to say which virus it actually is, though. I'm mostly planting cherry tomatoes (or varieties that didn't show symptoms around that area last year--such as Cherokee Yellow Perfection Peach), since I expect they'll have a higher-than-average capacity for resistance. But yeah, I want to experiment with susceptible varieties too, to see what happens after repeated generations of exposure.

The specific virus I'm talking about doesn't do anything to the leaves, fortunately (or it hasn't in previous years); so, the plants don't die. It just makes the fruit have a bunch of circular patterns (without rotting) all over it. So, it should be feasible to get fruits and seeds from year to year for experimentation.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#27

Post: # 46802Unread post Rockoe10
Sat May 15, 2021 5:58 am

Interesting. I haven't read anything about plants having a responsive immune system like fauna have. I'd love to read about it if you have a link available?

As for what you described, it sounds a lot like epigenetics. Which is a great thing to experiment with! And I'd imagine you should have great success with it. Varieties that grow in an area for a long time trend to develope these changes to the environment and grow tasty tomatoes, but when they get shared in a swap, they do poorly and taste terrible.

For those curious on the topic.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 121703.htm
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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#28

Post: # 46871Unread post Shule
Sat May 15, 2021 8:11 pm

[mention]Rockoe10[/mention]
It was a few years ago. I saw one or two articles on ScienceDaily about it, I'm guessing. I'm not sure that the immune system mentioned was quite like that of humans, but more like it than previously supposed, I believe. I don't remember the details.

I just found something that to me is even more interesting, because it directly answers some questions I had (but it's probably not the same thing):
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03640-y

So, in short, plants have innate immune systems passed on to progeny, and my experiment, in theory, should show more positive results than never-infected plants in infected soil, whether or not full immunity, if this virus and tomatoes are similar enough to the viruses and plants tested there.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
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Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#29

Post: # 46872Unread post Shule
Sun May 16, 2021 12:22 am

Anyway, I don't know how valid the information is in that site was that I linked to, but yeah.

I transplanted the rest of the tomatoes (except the ones that I replanted), today:
* Napoli cross B F2 x 2 (the third one died)
* Napoli, 2019 x 2 (the third one died)
* Stick x ~8 (they looked like they had mite damage)

So far, we've got 5 containers of West India burr gherkins that have sprouted. Sprite, Matina, and lots of Napoli (from 2020 seed) sprouted, as well as at least a couple more Stick tomatoes.

I watered them all, including the volunteers. We have a *lot* of volunteers. Almost every place I didn't transplant something has a volunteer in it. There are probably more volunteers than tomatoes that died. I'm planning to let them grow. I can guess that one of them is Galapagos Island, and probably some are a Medovaya Kaplya cross F3 (PL, yellow fruit, large round hopefully sweet cherry), which [mention]Barmaley[/mention] might be interested to hear about if true. As to the others, I don't have a particular guess.

I cleaned up the eastern garden area most of the way, and pulled up a bunch of Asperugo procumbens and salsify weeds.

The Egg Yolk tomato is looking very good.

The paper wasps are building nests.

I saw some bright yellow yellow jackets.

I put large tomato cages on Aunt Ginny's Purple and Matt's Hornet.

It's supposed to be in the early 90s tomorrow and the next day, and then it's supposed to be cooler for a while (maybe 70s, but mostly 60s).
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#30

Post: # 46876Unread post PlainJane
Sun May 16, 2021 6:23 am

Busy day!
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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#31

Post: # 47062Unread post Shule
Wed May 19, 2021 1:24 am

Something snipped off most of my SunGold F1 tomato plant, with a clean cut. Fortunately, it left a couple leaves. (This is one of the reasons I tend to overseed and wait a number of days to thin, as insurance against plant-snipping pests/phenomena. I didn't overseed SunGold F1, though.) I hope it grows new branches soon; it was already small. Fortunately, I found it in the morning; so, I'm trying to root the part that was snipped off. We'll see if it roots. I just have it outside by the other plant with toilet paper on it's stem, in a pineapple can with water in it. The cutting still looked good after a day; so, I'm excited about that.

Terhune is still alive, actually, but short enough to get mud all over it when watered (I had to remove some of the plant where it was wilting). So, I need to be careful with it. I removed the buckets that were shading it, on Tuesday evening.

I'm thinking about transplanting some peppers after I finish watering the tomatoes. I watered the eastern garden plot earlier.

Insurance_2 is looking a lot bigger than it was a while ago. It's almost as big as Garden Leader Monster. (Which is to say, it's one of the biggest plants, so far.)

Edit: A few hours later, I watered the rest (but didn't transplant any peppers, at that time).
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#32

Post: # 47112Unread post Shule
Thu May 20, 2021 2:25 am

Something severed most of one of my Napoli cross A F2s (it was also a single plant), much as happened with SunGold F1. It's possible maybe my hose hit it when I was watering; I don't know (but the hose didn't hit SunGold F1). Anyway, if it doesn't grow new branches, there are volunteers growing in the same spot.

It was cool enough in the evening to light the fire (which I did). The plants should be fine, though.

I just got my second shot of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine on Wednesday.

We've got to move our leftover firewood from the winter off the planting ground. I need somewhere to grow my watermelons. Everywhere I usually grow them has been taken (by tomatoes, wonderberries or appropriated by another gardener for misc. vegetables). Well, there are plenty of shady areas where I usually plant herbs (I didn't plant any herbs, this year); not sure how watermelon would do there. It might be worth a try.

My sunroot x sunflower F1 hybrids are looking good (I've got two sets of those). I didn't dig any of them up; so, they're growing vigorously where I had them last year.

The sunroots (and probably the hybrids, too) are rather invasive; I knew they were, but I put some in a poor spot considering that fact! (I guess I figured I would have done more harvesting this time of year). I think I like growing them in the shade most; they do well there, and get nice, big tubers.

Terhune is still alive. I think it'll be okay. Time will tell. Maybe I'll put that extra Japanese Black Trifele where that mostly-coppiced Napoli cross A F2 is. That would be a good spot for it.

The Stick plants were smaller than most tomatoes at transplant time--like really small. I think two of the Stick tomato plants died post-transplant (they just shriveled up).
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#33

Post: # 47185Unread post Shule
Thu May 20, 2021 10:07 pm

I just went outside and checked on the garden. It's cold and windy, today. The SunGold F1 cutting is still alive and looking well. Terhune is still alive. I'm wanting to mix up some calcium nitrate for foliar sprays (especially on the plants that got severed, and on the Stick tomatoes). I've never sprayed calcium nitrate on tomatoes before (to my recollection), but our Golden Pothos and holiday cactuses sure like it. Peppers seem to like it, too.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
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Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#34

Post: # 47188Unread post Shule
Thu May 20, 2021 10:51 pm

Oh, I noticed yesterday that my volunteer that is probably Galapagos Island has flower buds, already (they're big enough that they've probably been there for a while).
Location: SW Idaho, USA
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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#35

Post: # 47212Unread post Shule
Fri May 21, 2021 9:20 pm

Things are looking good, except Terhune's small amount of foliage looks a bit chlorotic. It's still cold and windy out there. It rained, today.

One Insurance_2 plant has flower buds (I haven't thinned it, yet, but I think I'll keep that one; it's also the biggest one). That's very exciting.
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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#36

Post: # 47452Unread post Shule
Tue May 25, 2021 11:50 pm

Today, I started transplanting peppers. I still have 6 left, which I plan to transplant tomorrow. One or two of those 6 have some foliar spots (maybe a disease or something; we've been having a lot of rain; so, they haven't been dry in a while).

Anyway, I planted 18 in the front yard, in an area where we're planning to put shredded wood mulch, this week. I transplanted the rest (all these are bell peppers) on the western part of the front yard in an area with black plastic; some are in an area with partial shade.

There's a huge mosquito that I just saw on my tablet (probably three times the size of a regular mosquito).

Anyway, Terhune is still growing and it looks good. I think it's safe to say it's going to survive. Just as a reminder, I accidentally severed Terhune from its roots when I was transplanting it; so, I tried rooting it in the soil, and shading it for a while as I did so; that seemed to work. The leaves don't look chlorotic anymore, either.

I transplanted the SunGold F1 cutting the other day (even though it doesn't have roots), since it's been wet and rainy. It's still alive, but the outer leaves wilted. I gave it some wood ash, today. We'll see how it does.

I think the cold and rain has been killing the West India burr gherkins. They really need the insulation from foam cups, it seems.

I'm planning to plant about 10 watermelons (all from favorable fruits last year, except for some from Weeks NC Giant watermelon seeds saved in 2016).

I don't know if I'll plant any muskmelons, this year, after all.

More tomato plants are getting buds.

I transplanted a red-flowering Thanksgiving cactus cutting outside, experimentally. (It came off when I was watering the big plant.) It already had some dry roots on it.

Anyway, it's been raining for the past few days. Usually, it's not terribly rainy this late in the spring, but it is still spring, and we've had a fairly dry winter.

I'm thinking about mixing some potassium sulfate and calcium nitrate to do foliar sprays on plants, this year. I'll have to check and see if those two fertilizer salts mix well.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#37

Post: # 47457Unread post Whwoz
Wed May 26, 2021 2:36 am

Shule wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 11:50 pm
I'm thinking about mixing some potassium sulfate and calcium nitrate to do foliar sprays on plants, this year. I'll have to check and see if those two fertilizer salts mix well.
The thing most likely to stop you would be the formation of Calcium Sulphate or Gypsum, which is basically insoluble in water

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#38

Post: # 47540Unread post Shule
Wed May 26, 2021 10:43 pm

Well, I have good and bad news.

Good news:
* The severed Napoli cross A F2 is growing new leaves! I'm really excited about that.
* The transplanted peppers are looking great (especially the ones in the area with black plastic).
* The Stick tomatoes are growing visibly. I think they liked the cool, wet weather, and the switch to a warmer day.
* The southernmost Picnic_2 plant is looking a whole lot better than it was. It looked like it might have had something wrong with it at transplant time, but it looks perfectly healthy.
* Our elderberries and blackcurrants (except for the volunteer currant, which has issues) are enormous. They're extremely vigorous.

Bad news:
* I don't think the SunGold F1 cutting is going to make it. Hopefully the original plant grows new leaves like the Napoli cross A F2 plant did. I should fertilize it or something.
* We didn't get mulch, today; so, those peppers that don't have black plastic will have to wait until at least Saturday to get shredded wood mulch on them.

I think I'm going to put the remaining six peppers in my four 18-gallon totes. No sense letting those totes go to waste. I'll need to mulch them more, though, and I want to add more nutrients.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#39

Post: # 47543Unread post Shule
Thu May 27, 2021 4:02 am

Okay, I transplanted the rest of the peppers. There were six overseeded containers, but I decided to split them up into thirty-six plants instead of thinning them. So, I filled all the totes, most of the buckets, and a strip of ground with them--all in the backyard. These particular peppers are the following varieties:

* Orange Sun (these are in the 10-gallon totes and some of the 5-gallon buckets)
* Golden California Wonder (the orange version of it; these are in three 18-gallon totes, one plant per tote, and several in the ground)
* Hungarian Sweet Wax (these are in buckets, two in an 18-gallon tote, and some in the ground)

So, we should have 65 sweet pepper plants, this year, after I thin the ones in the front yard! I just counted the ones in the front yard (11 in the area with black plastic, and 18 in the not-yet-mulched area).

The Chocolate Chestnut tomato doesn't seem to have anthocyanin on its leaves, this year. The leaves do look unique, though (but I don't mean the color). Last year, it was a pretty dark tomato plant (in the spring, anyway). I wonder if it's a cross (if so, I'm going to take a wild guess that Purple Calabash is the father, by the look of the leaves). Anyway, I gave it a lot more room, this year; so, I'm excited about that.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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Re: Shule's 2021 garden grow log

#40

Post: # 47613Unread post Shule
Thu May 27, 2021 7:41 pm

Okay, so the UV index was 10, today. It wasn't hot, though (just warm), nor particularly sunny. The plants didn't seem bothered by it, except for the Black Beauty tomato (which I thought would have tolerated UV more than most; I guess not). It should be fine, though; just some leaf wilting.

It looks like something came and finished off SunGold F1; I saw a bunch of ants crawling all over where it was. The SunGold F1 cutting, however, looks a bit more alive than it did yesterday.

All the transplanted peppers are looking great, except one of the Hungarian Sweet Wax peppers that's in the ground.

The volunteer that is probably Galapagos Island was blooming, today.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
Climate: BSk
USDA hardiness zone: 6
Elevation: 2,260 feet

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