Now What Do I Do?

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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#41

Post: # 16140Unread post DMF
Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:42 pm

My first response is "too wet", but it's hard to tell with just this info. Snip the leaves, stop watering, and go for walkies.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#42

Post: # 16147Unread post Setec Astronomy
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:19 am

Bower wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 6:43 pm
This might be helpful:
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ato_plants
So that says that lack of UV is a major cause, what does this say about using LED grow lights? The light these plants are under is an iGrowtek LED that I got from Amazon; it says "full spectrum" on it, but my experience says that LED lights have no UV component the way fluorescents do.

EDIT: Fortunately it's a good day for UV, as it's overcast, so the plants should be able to get some UV without getting sunburned, so to speak (correct me if wrong)--I already put them outside. It's a little cool out now, 46F, supposed to go up to 64 today. Presuming this is a light issue...did I start my plants too early? I planted the seeds a month ago, 8 weeks before my average last frost date, thinking the bigger the better when I planted them outside.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#43

Post: # 16151Unread post Bower
Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:56 am

Too early or not is a separate question, unrelated to intumescence issues - you will get a variety of answers but mostly it depends on your container size and what stage you intended to plant them. 6-8 weeks is normal range. Most people want them planted out before they have any flowers. I like to get mine to the point they are about to flower and then hurry to get them in. KarenO has a method for long season types in the North, allowing them to set their first fruit before they are out but using large containers. So it depends on your conditions and what kind of season you have, what works best for you.

As for the edema/intumescence I can only say, I've never had it on plants that got some light from a window as well as supplemental lights. All the plants that suffered this were away from windows. Pepper seedlings had it under fluorescent lights too.

That's good to know about so called 'full spectrum' LED - I've been wanting to get some of those. :cry: But I guess it's not a substitute for natural light (for tomatoes anyway). The LED I used which was disastrous was a shoplight 4000K not intended for plants and obviously, nothing like the complex spectrum you get from real daylight. Greens do pretty well under it but I would never try on tomatoes again.

Aside from the light issue (which is supposed to solve the problem regardless of the complex causes) I personally dread peat pots because they make it more difficult to manage water relations for the plant. Secondly, potting up gradually is also the only way I can manage to keep soil just the right moisture level, which the plant can manage for its size. A small plant in a large pot can be swamped, just can't transpire the volume of water that the soil can hold around it. And a last thought is that the constant blower you described from the heating system may not be helping either. Wind causes plants to shut their stomata to prevent water loss. If they're sitting in a large volume of wet soil at the same time, there's no way to cope with it...
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#44

Post: # 16160Unread post Setec Astronomy
Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:09 am

I'm not sure whether the LED light I have is really "full spectrum"...that's just what it says on the side. It appears "white", it's not one of those red/blue ones. The room where I have the plants does get some outdoor light, but it's mostly indirect. I reduced the air coming out of the register a few days ago because I thought it was drying things out. Now I've shut it entirely (which I do during cooling season anyway).

The peat pots...seemed like a good idea at the time. Since I grow in containers outside, where it always seems to be better to have more soil to hold more moisture during warm/dry weather, I figured bigger pots would be better; I ordered them online and yeah, they were bigger than I expected when I got them, and thought the direct transplant without unpotting was a good idea. I'm seeing now all the downsides.

Thanks for everybody's help, you guys (and gals) are great. Hopefully my plants get through this ok. We seem to be having a very warm spring so maybe I will get them transplanted outside a week earlier than usual.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#45

Post: # 16165Unread post brownrexx
Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:22 am

The whole process is trial and error. Some things work well for one person and other things work well for another. Environmental conditions are different in different houses. You will find what works best for you. There is no 100% perfect method.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#46

Post: # 16166Unread post Bower
Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:36 am

So true! Many methods work for different environments.
SetecA, don't worry. Tomato plants are very tough. Chances are they'll be fine. :)
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#47

Post: # 16183Unread post Setec Astronomy
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:26 am

What would be the symptoms if the culprit is my using the full-strength liquid fertilizer instead of half?
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#48

Post: # 16196Unread post Setec Astronomy
Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:10 pm

Well, things are getting worse, my strongest plants are getting floppy. My Green Bee, which was my sturdiest plant, has these nodules on the stem:
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I transferred a couple of them to dry pots, and took a couple more out of the pots, I'm not really sure what to do.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#49

Post: # 16214Unread post DMF
Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:20 pm

Setec Astronomy wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:09 am
The peat pots...seemed like a good idea at the time. Since I grow in containers outside, ... thought the direct transplant without unpotting was a good idea. I'm seeing now all the downsides.
There's even more downsides. For all the best wishes, peat pots constrain the roots. They'll still be intact next year, hopefully with some roots that got through them.

In other worlds, REMOVE before up-potting.

P.S. I hear that overseas the pots are different and decompose more easily.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#50

Post: # 16215Unread post DMF
Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:24 pm

The white nodules are roots starting. They can indicate distress or just be normal. If you re-pot deeper they will turn into more roots.

Have you de-potted some and inspected?
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#51

Post: # 16219Unread post Setec Astronomy
Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:40 pm

DMF wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:24 pm
The white nodules are roots starting. They can indicate distress or just be normal. If you re-pot deeper they will turn into more roots.

Have you de-potted some and inspected?
Yes, what am I looking for? Remember I started these in the big Jiffy pellets so they are still in the netting.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#52

Post: # 16244Unread post DMF
Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:42 pm

You're looking for nice white little roots running around the inside of the pot. Take a pic or two.

Oh, and that label stake is awfully close to the plant.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#53

Post: # 16250Unread post Setec Astronomy
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:18 pm

Well, I unpotted and repotted the 4 worst ones, with fresh seed-starting soil. I also removed the netting from the Jiffy pellets. We'll see if all that stress kills them. I'll keep an eye on those and the others, if these 4 recover and others start to deteriorate, I'll know what to do. I still don't really know if it was too much fertilzer, too much water, or not enough UV.

That label stake was being used as a temporary support stake, that's why it's hardly inserted.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#54

Post: # 16259Unread post AZGardener
Mon Apr 06, 2020 12:14 am

Setec Astronomy wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:18 pm
Well, I unpotted and repotted the 4 worst ones, with fresh seed-starting soil. I also removed the netting from the Jiffy pellets. We'll see if all that stress kills them. I'll keep an eye on those and the others, if these 4 recover and others start to deteriorate, I'll know what to do. I still don't really know if it was too much fertilzer, too much water, or not enough UV.

That label stake was being used as a temporary support stake, that's why it's hardly inserted.
I always remove the netting on peat pellets before potting up. I know it's been said the netting
can stay on when planting or potting up, but it's better to remove it because IMHO, it restricts root growth.

The first photos of your seedlings after repotting look good. The moisture level in the potting mix looked right
The photos of the wilted lower leaved plants the soil looks too wet.
Can you share a photo of the top of the plant and upper leaves?
It may be a combination of too much water and full strength fertilizer.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#55

Post: # 16273Unread post Setec Astronomy
Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:19 am

Here's the class this morning:
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#56

Post: # 16281Unread post MissS
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:40 am

They don't look so bad, maybe a little leggy and droopy but hopefully you can get them outside very soon. The sooner the better, even if it only for an hour or two each day. A fan on them would help to create a stronger stem. Since you don't have one brush your hand across the tops of your plants of couple of times every day. This will help to cause resistance and strengthen those stems.
As DMF said those white dots on the stems are root nodes and nothing to worry about. (Do I hear a sigh of relief?) They will form new roots when they come into contact with soil. This is one of the reasons that tomatoes can survive so many hardships.

Some symptoms of too much fertilizer are deep green leaves sometimes they can even start to approach blue. The leaves can also start to curl under and the leaf tips will start to brown and drop. Of course these symptoms are just that and can also indicate other issues. Your plant on the right in the middle row is displaying some of this.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#57

Post: # 16285Unread post brownrexx
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:50 am

I have started putting my little seedlings outside in filtered sun for a couple of hours each day. They were very weak and had skinny stems but after about 3 days of this the stems have doubled in thickness and the seedlings no longer seem in danger of blowing over in the slightest breeze.

Watch your seedlings like a hawk the first few days that you put them outside. They can burn up or show other signs of distress quickly. They are very delicate at this point. I start with only about an hour at a time and then bring them back indoors.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#58

Post: # 16286Unread post Setec Astronomy
Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:15 am

MissS wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:40 am
Some symptoms of too much fertilizer are deep green leaves sometimes they can even start to approach blue. The leaves can also start to curl under and the leaf tips will start to brown and drop. Of course these symptoms are just that and can also indicate other issues. Your plant on the right in the middle row is displaying some of this.
They all seem to be droopy now. That one you mentioned is one of the worst ones that I repotted, along with the smaller one behind it, the one in the middle front, and the one all the way in the back on the left that you can't really see. Those were the ones that dropped the most leaves. Will the ones that are simply curling the leaves resolve themselves from the over-fertilization? I have a few in-between that lost some leaves but not as many as the four that I repotted.

brownrexx wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:50 am
Watch your seedlings like a hawk the first few days that you put them outside. They can burn up or show other signs of distress quickly. They are very delicate at this point. I start with only about an hour at a time and then bring them back indoors.
I just put them out for an hour, hopefully the squirrel that just knocked over a strawberry pot will leave them alone.

Thanks to both of you!
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#59

Post: # 16305Unread post Nan6b
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:46 am

I have used peat pots successfully. Most plants are fine & the pots deteriorate fine. But now & then you find one that can't break out of the pot, so as everyone said, remove the pot before up-potting.

Tomato plants take stresses like potting up and such very well. It's hard to kill them that way. I accidentally cut off 2' of a 3' long plant (indoors under lights; growing in winter). I put the 2' "cutting" in water for a few days. It grew roots & I potted it up. Both pieces were fine. When you look at how much abuse seedlings take if you're using the "dense planting method," you will see just how much they can take.
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Re: Now What Do I Do?

#60

Post: # 16353Unread post MissS
Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:11 pm

OK these peat pots of yours are so tricky to keep the moisture content even. I had a heck of a time the year I tried to use them. You just re-potted so you need to be sure that the root area is moist not wet which of course is very tricky especially once you start to put them outdoors. The wind and the sun can dry them quickly and you may be tempted to over-water. Please make sure the droopiness is not due to lack of water but be careful not to give them very wet feet. You can also expect them to sulk for a day or two by being a little droopy after the transplant. So please don't worry too much yet.
You are doing a great job for your first time. We all have made these mistakes and that is how you learn. Don't beat yourself up, you are learning an awful lot here which is great. Be patient and keep asking questions. I'm really pleased that you are keeping us informed and showing us what is happening with your plants.
Yes your plants will now begin to resolve any issues from the fertilizer, it may take some time to grow un-damaged roots first.
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