seed cross

encore
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seed cross

#1

Post: # 2365Unread post encore
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:27 pm

just wondering--I saved some seeds from a sun sugar tomato, one that wasn't bagged and I also bagged some tomatoes, so back to the one that wasn't bagged--I grew one out and sent it with a snow bird to grow out in fla.. she sent pics. and no way are they sun sugar, pretty big tomatoes! lol not sure what color they will turn out to be. anyways my question is, will all those seeds from that tomato be like the one I grew out? in other words will all seeds in one tomato produce the same tomatoes , or can every seeds in that tomato turn out to be something different? thanks---tom

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TheDante
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Re: seed cross

#2

Post: # 2370Unread post TheDante
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:37 pm

hmmm.. can someone confirm if SunSugar is a hybrid F1 tomato? Because I doublechecked Tatiana´s site just to verify… that could be the reason why, encore.
Karen´s current status - tomato nutcase :D

Kind hearts are the gardens, Kind thoughts are the roots, Kind words are the blossoms, Kind deeds are the fruits - Karpal Singh

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Shule
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Re: seed cross

#3

Post: # 2372Unread post Shule
Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:41 pm

Yes, SunSugar is an F1 hybrid. Seeds you save from the F1 will each produce a different kind of plant. This could account for the larger size.

F3 seeds from the larger-fruited F2 are more likely to resemble the F2 than the F2 was to resemble the F1, but you'll probably still get a lot of variation (unless you got super lucky). It's theoretically possible to get a stable F3 seed, but it's statistically improbable. It would take a lot of plants and a big headache to verify. Most people usually grow out a bunch more generations (maybe to about F8 or so). The more generations you grow it, the more likely the tomato is to stabilize itself (whether or not it resembles the previous generation). They'll stabilize faster if you ensure that the flower of the tomato self-pollinates each time (to avoid further hybridization and such).

If you like genetic diversity, though, there's no particular rush to completely stabilize it.

F1, F2, F3 and such are for keeping track which generation the hybrid is.
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encore
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Re: seed cross

#4

Post: # 2394Unread post encore
Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:01 pm

lol forgot about it being a hybrid! too funny!--tom

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Bower
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Re: seed cross

#5

Post: # 2404Unread post Bower
Fri Dec 20, 2019 4:08 pm

Yeah, but being unbagged and if bees are in the picture, you could actually have a lot of tomatoes that are entirely different from one another. Depending on what other tomatoes were growing in the same place. Bees picking up random pollen from more than one plant, you could have crosses from more than one in the same tomato! :)
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Shule
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Re: seed cross

#6

Post: # 4078Unread post Shule
Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:19 am

@Bower
Yep. I've been told that each unit of pollen corresponds to a single seed. So, in theory every seed could be pollinated by a different kind of tomato.

I find that when I overseed a PL tomato, I often find at least one or two RL plants (out of maybe 8 to 20), which shows that a very small amount of stray pollen is getting in somehow.
Location: SW Idaho, USA
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TomHillbilly
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Re: seed cross

#7

Post: # 14831Unread post TomHillbilly
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:46 pm

Sun-sugar is a highly unstable hybrid. Meaning its going to morph into something else quickly. Sun-gold is one of its parents. It was developed from Sun-gold, because Sun-gold is very prone to cracks. I switched from Sun-gold to Sun-sugar about 15 years ago. Actual F-1 Sun-sugar seeds are high priced. I buy a F-1 seeded plant every 4 to 5 years, and collect seeds for F-2 plants. I never have any morphed plants. But, if I collect seeds a second time, a 3rd of the plants will morph into a horrible tasting red tomato. There is always the possibility your ripened cherry you collected your seeds from, was cross-pollinated by a bee, from a neighboring variety plant. But here is what most likely happened. Because many people know that you can get away with collecting seeds from a plant grown from a F-1 seeded plant one time--the first time only, without any noticeable change. A lot of people are doing it to avoid the higher priced actual F-1 seeds. Which has to be cultivated in a controlled atmosphere. That is why they bare a higher priced. Some greenhouses have done it. And some people selling the more cheep F-1 seeds on Ebay do it. They are selling, or using F-2 seeds. There is a good chance you was snookered, and that plant was not from a actual F-1 seeded plant. Meaning your collected seeds was F-3's-- not F-2's. That means the seeds you sent to that person was destined to morphed changes. You should be able to figure out which occurred. You know how you got that plant you collected from. PS--What I told ya, you can take to the bank. And the next time you read where someone is complaining, that those hybrid tomato plants they grew, don't look like what they intended to buy. You will know they got duped also. Its happened to all of us at one point, or another. If you continual to collect seeds from Hybrids. Always collect enough for multiple years. Because you can't collect twice, without risk of serious mutations. Test grow a few plants the first year from those seeds. If know morphs occurs, than you can go in bigger the following years.

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Nan6b
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Re: seed cross

#8

Post: # 14853Unread post Nan6b
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:23 am

There can be a huge variation in the F2's, depending on the original parents of the F1's. If you want to get more F1 plants without buying more F1 seeds, take cuttings of the F1. The cuttings will be F1's.

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