Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

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MsCowpea
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Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#1

Post: # 1312Unread post MsCowpea
Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:38 am

https://smallfarm.ifas.ufl.edu/calendar/

If you enjoyed akmark’s posts on TV but need a little extra help. This workshop is Jan 28, 2020 for one day. From the University of Florida. They are having a complete hydroponic workshop setup for 2 days in March as well. (You can also learn how to grow mushrooms on logs on Jan 7.)


Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Management

January 28, 2020 • 8:00 AM-5:00 PM
North Florida REC - Suwannee Valley • 8202 County Road 417, Live Oak, FL 32060
Cost: $85

Topics will include:
Plant nutrient basics
Water quality & media selections
How to mix your own fertilizer
Understanding the role of pH in your water
Monitoring & adjusting nutrient solutions
How injectors work
Hands-on lab sessions
Equipment and meters
To register online, visit: https://2020NutrientManagement.eventbrite.com


Registration includes lunch, refreshments and class materials.
To register by mail, send form and payment to:
(checks payable to) University of Florida: 7580 County Road 136 • Live Oak, FL 32060
For additional information contact us at (386)219-4253 or (386)219-4256.

(I took the 2 day class just for fun but it was over my head though I still learned a lot. I should take the nutrient class as a refresher. I like to grow organically but want to know about all methods.)
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peebee
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#2

Post: # 3147Unread post peebee
Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:14 am

Wish I had something like that here! Maybe if I dig further I can find something similar, thanks for the idea.
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MsCowpea
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#3

Post: # 11232Unread post MsCowpea
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:33 am

I ended up taking this hydroponic nutrient workshop.

Took me six hours to get there. Stayed overnight. Took the class—8 to 5. Stopped off half way home and stayed the night before driving home.

I enjoyed it very much but I like every class or workshop I have ever taken with few exceptions. You always learn a lot.
Last edited by MsCowpea on Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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peebee
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#4

Post: # 11237Unread post peebee
Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:30 am

MsCowpea wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:33 am I ended up taking this hydroponic nutrient workshop.

Took me six hours to get there. Stayed overnight. Took the class—8 to 5. Stopped off half way home and stayed the night before driving home.

I enjoyed it very much but I like every class or workshop I have ever taken with few exceptions. You always learn a lot.
Wow that's like driving from L.A. all the way to almost San Francisco. I admire your passion! You'll have lots of new knowledge to share I'm sure.
Zone 10, Southern California
Will eat anything once before I judge.
Anything meaning any foods of course.

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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#5

Post: # 11238Unread post MsCowpea
Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:09 am

I still don’t get all that chemical injector set up - lots of pipes going every which way. :shock:

What was interesting was they did this set up where they deprived the plant of a particular nutrient and you saw the effects on the plant and the roots.

I went hoping to get some insight into organic hydroponics which is being done in a few places. They discussed it briefly but it isn’t mainstream and it is difficult to do successfully.

They did cover how to mix and add hydroponic fertilizer to two tanks at each stage of growth.

They also showed how to test chopped up petioles of the tomato plant for nitrogen and potassium levels but those hand held testers
are very expensive and I believe most large operations send out leaf samples for a more accurate analysis.
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#6

Post: # 11244Unread post PlainJane
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:19 am

Wow, looks like it was well worth the effort. Learning is always fun!
“Never try to outstubborn a cat.”
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#7

Post: # 11358Unread post peebee
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:09 pm

Remember when Urban Farms (maker of Texas Tomato Food) used to sell a hydro system? It looked so interesting, ahead of its time. Now they no longer sell it but if they started again it would probably do well now.
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#8

Post: # 11362Unread post Cole_Robbie
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:24 pm

The organic certification standards are very anti-hydro. The last I looked, all plastics had to be food safe, which is ridiculous, because submersible pumps do not exist in food safe plastic form. They also will not certify aquaponics as organic, which is equally ridiculous. Fish and plants coexisting symbiotically seems to me to be as organic as it gets.

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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#9

Post: # 11372Unread post pepperhead212
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:59 pm

They don't need submersible pumps for most of those commercial systems, only the deepwater (rarely used, except in things like you show, to test different nutrient effects on plants), aeroponic, and aquaponic. I just use powerheads like I use in my aquariums, so they wouldn't be considered food safe, but I'm still alive! They have been developing a lot of organic nutrients, which are more or less odor-free. That was one of the major problems initially with organics - it always smelled like fish, one of the major sources for organic nutrients! lol

That's great that you got to see all that, MsCowpea! It's amazing how the different stages of a tomato are benefited by the different nutrient levels. The most obvious we know - growth, then flowering, but as soon as the fruits begin developing it's different, then when ripening it's different again, and in hydro, they can change it at all those stages. I remember reading all that in a free mag the store owner here gives out every month or two - free, because it's mostly advertising, but I've learned a lot on lighting, and all these nutrient systems in that.
Woodbury, NJ zone 7a/7b

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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#10

Post: # 11392Unread post Ginger2778
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:53 am

Wow excellent pictures and narrative. This is an interesting thread.
Karen Fields (South Florida Edible Gardening Gal)doesn't think much of hydroponics because she says the resulting fruits have a watery much less full taste. She thinks the soil/ferts have more to give than just the growth nutrients, to impart better flavor. I don't actually have an opinion, except I think Earthboxes are a form of hydroponics, and mine have great taste.
Opinions from those who have tried both ways?
- Marsha

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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#11

Post: # 11499Unread post MsCowpea
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:48 pm

The thing is I think using organic Tomato Tone as your main fertilizer (then supplementing with synthetic inputs) is very different than water based hydroponics using all synthetic liquid nutrients which I think is what your friend Karen Fields is referencing when she speaks of hydroponics and their watery , perhaps poorer taste. The organic component potentially changes everything. I would think the TT must be a critical and important factor in developing flavor in your EB. I think you would have to use nothing but conventional hydroponic fertilizer In your earthbox to relate to what she is saying. Then you could agree or disagree with her take on hydroponics.

I do have a preference for soil grown crops despite my many earth boxes and containers and hydro classes. I have been to a huge greenhouse of lettuces grown with synthetic liquid nutrients and other than I find it fascinating seeing all the perfect lettuce I much prefer the organic farms I have been to despite the less than perfect produce. (And I would take lettuce grown in the soil over an Earthbox any day as I love the whole process of growing in the ground or raised beds particularly making compost. Even feel this way about tomatoes in raised beds in real soil though they are persnickety. (I still would never give up EB tomatoes as it is such a unique system.)

I still would like to try organic hydro with a compost based mix just to see what was possible.

(organic hydroponics Is very different from conventional hydroponics)
Last edited by MsCowpea on Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:52 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#12

Post: # 11502Unread post MsCowpea
Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:21 am

https://modernfarmer.com/2017/05/is-hyd ... g-organic/

Cole-Robbie, I understand what you are saying but I understand the reasoning behind restricting the
‘Organic’ label to soil production. Someone either think soil adds a value beyond any external organic inputs
the farmer may use to produce a crop. Or they don’t and therefore no distinction between organic hydroponics and soil is necessary-just call all production methods ‘organic’ if they use organic inputs which is what the big agribusiness complexes are pushing.
But the term is supposed to mean something whether one supports organic
farmers or could care less. The certification arm didn’t really want to target small growers with a production system circulating fish waste but they are caught there with huge industrial-type agribusiness complexes.

But the US is already going in the direction of certifying organic hydroponics despite NOP objections.
(Europe (2021) Canada, and Mexico won’t certify hydro as organic.) In the US that organic head of lettuce could have been grown in Nutrient -rich water or in the actual ground with real dirt. At the very least label it Hydro
Organics though this doesn’t quite sit right as it is usurping a word that has taken decades for the traditional organic farmer to define a system of production, recognized by the consumer, where improving and nurturing the soil is forefront in importance.

(Soil grown food is different than containers or soilless mediums - some may even consider the container produce grown in a protective environment even safer so why not let the consumer know what they are getting? Distinguish production methods with a different label. How about ‘Naturally Safer Hydroponics’ :)
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#13

Post: # 11505Unread post peebee
Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:28 am

As someone who has grown veggies both ways, I agree w/ MsCP that in-ground tastes better than those grown in EBs. But I also agree w/ Marsha that EB tomatoes do taste great, esp if grown w/ the extra tips shared by so many here. And you can't beat the ease & production of EBs. I'm fortunate I have options on how to grow my tomatoes. I would love to try growing them hydroponically at least once.
I once grew cucumbers side by side using both methods & took pics. The difference was clear-the EB ones were lighter & tasted watery & the in-grounds were darker green & tastier. Too bad this was back in the day before cell phone cameras so I can't show them here. I haven't grown cukes in 5 years due to the spider mites. But I might try this summer as I have more time now to attend to the daily task of blasting the mites w/ water. It has worked on tomatoes.
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#14

Post: # 11507Unread post MsCowpea
Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:38 am

Peebee, I think an Earthbox can grow a great tasting tomato too. With the right inputs. And though I love growing tomatoes in a raised bed they can be watery as well what with rain and overwatering and so I can’t say they always taste better. But they do have access to a wide range of
nutrients derived from all the compost, cover crops, and other inputs. Unfortunately our soil is so poor to begin with it certain deficiencies
are common. So with tomatoes an EB and raised beds both have different advantages.

And though I personally prefer soil based gardening I realize hydroponics has many benefits as a method of production. I believe that Campari's, the best store bought tomato you can buy at Costco is grown hydroponically so you can get a good tasting tomato with the right variety and inputs. Hydroponic operations grow the types of tomatoes that suit a greenhouse and these are usually hybrids. Sometimes poor flavor in a store tomato is attributed to the transport and storage of the tomato after it is picked.
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#15

Post: # 11611Unread post peebee
Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:11 pm

100% agree on above. With the years-long drought continuing in my area, watery taste thru too much rain probably won't happen :lol:
I wish I could taste some of AKMark's tomatoes, remember his pics @ TVille?
To me a home grown tomato no matter how it's grown, is far superior than store bought. It's so much fun learning how other people grow theirs.
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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#16

Post: # 11640Unread post pepperhead212
Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:55 pm

My theory is that the flavorless store bought tomatoes are not so much because of where they are grown, but because of the varieties they grow - not necessarily just hybrids (I have had hybrids beat heirlooms in numerous blind tastings), but hybrids bred for shipping - in other words, no juice, and hard as apples! Many years ago, farmers around here - the tomato state, when I was growing up - started growing this type of tomato, since most of their crop had to be shipped, so the farmers stands, where my Mom used to get really good tomatoes, were selling the same thing you'd find in supermarkets! Some have changed back, but now, it doesn't matter matter to me. lol

I have had no noticeable difference in flavor in the herbs and greens I grow in the ground, EB, or hydroponics, though I do add some fulvic and humic acid additives, and micronutrients to the hydro and EBs. I've never grown fruiting plants in hydro, however.
Woodbury, NJ zone 7a/7b

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Re: Hydroponic Vegetable Nutrient Workshop Jan 28

#17

Post: # 11649Unread post Ginger2778
Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:15 pm

pepperhead212 wrote: Sat Feb 22, 2020 5:55 pm My theory is that the flavorless store bought tomatoes are not so much because of where they are grown, but because of the varieties they grow - not necessarily just hybrids (I have had hybrids beat heirlooms in numerous blind tastings), but hybrids bred for shipping - in other words, no juice, and hard as apples! Many years ago, farmers around here - the tomato state, when I was growing up - started growing this type of tomato, since most of their crop had to be shipped, so the farmers stands, where my Mom used to get really good tomatoes, were selling the same thing you'd find in supermarkets! Some have changed back, but now, it doesn't matter matter to me. lol

I have had no noticeable difference in flavor in the herbs and greens I grow in the ground, EB, or hydroponics, though I do add some fulvic and humic acid additives, and micronutrients to the hydro and EBs. I've never grown fruiting plants in hydro, however.
Pepperhead, what micronutrients do you add to the Earthboxes? I have trouble finding water soluble ferts with micros.
- Marsha

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