Big-Beef-ology

[Blackbear]

Many of you have found that even if you prefer "OP" philosophy … a few Hybrids are still undeniable
Classic ...disease resistant and dependable ….etc. Big Beef is just such a hybrid that has stood the test for many years !

Do we know the parents of Big beef yet ?
Are their a few OP select varieties derived from Big beef ?

It has been suggested that taking seeds from your grow out is still good for another generation due to Big Beef being so stable
so the seeds are actually good for next year due to low genetic drift ?

If anyone has any insights to this classic hybrid …..I would be interested to be updated ...

[brownrexx]

No insights but I grow Big Beef every year for its disease resistance and reliability. I also like the size of the fruits and the fact that they rarely crack.

I like to freeze whole tomatoes for use in adding them to dry beans, chili or soup when I just need a little more tomato flavor. Big Beef are perfect for this since they are perfectly round and usually blemish free.

I do not save seeds.

[TomHillbilly]

Big Big is a fairly new tomato. It was just developed in 1994. Which isn't even enough to have earned it the title of Heirloom --if it was attempting.
The same guy that breed the old Celebrity, developed Big Beef. Enjoy it while you can. Because just as the OLD Celebrity, someone will Improve the taste away. They always do.
PS-- I have no ideal when Big Beef will morph back to its parents. Some claim it is fairly stable. I've been growing from F-2 seeds for years. Never seen a noticeable change yet. It was time to restock up on F-2 seeds. The F-1 seed I purchased this year, germination was horrible. I will get enough plants to restock up on seeds. I was lucky I had enough old F-2 seeds to grow some plants for friends. Those old seed still germinate at 80%.

[TomHillbilly]

I myself, rarely grow Big Beef in my garden. More friends request I grow them some Big Beef plants, than any other variety. They claim it comes on so hard, even though it is indeterminate. They love it for canning purposes. It has replaced their determinate plants, because it don't stop producing. They view it as a king among all purpose tomatoes. Big Beef got off to a bad early marketing start. It laid unnoticed for almost a decade. Finally by word of mouth, it took off. The first time I saw the plant, it was in a friends garden. He had bought it at a greenhouse, as a experimental. It stood out, and caught my eye quickly. I collect a tomato from the plant for seed, even though I suspected it was a hybrid. It wasn't wrote on the label. In those days, it wasn't advertised that much, as a hybrid. I guess they was still researching for changes in the generations. I've grown the plants for years, and observed how my plants preformed in other gardens. It is a great frying, canning, slicing tomato, with a good disease package.
I would recommend it to people with smaller gardens, that want a dependable heavy producer. I myself, have a very short list of repeat tomatoes, and I don't can tomatoes. I eat several Big Beef tomatoes a year. But generally its the ones I pick out of friends garden's. I like to keep track on what the plants I give away are doing. This year I will grow a few Big Beef for seed. PS-- That is about all the first hand information I have on this variety.

[Blackbear]

interesting ..interesting ,,,
I concur Big beef yes,,,,,,,but Celebrity no.

I find that Big beef is vigorous and flexible disease resistant and still makes a good container variety due to its vigor.
I find the early suckers or bottom 9" branches make great vigorous plantlings ...due to the extra vigor.

I just may try the F-2 seeds next year to see what happens ……. ( so you think the seeds are still pretty close to OP use ?)

I think Big Beef deserves more looking into ..

[brownrexx]

I freeze a lot of pasta sauce for use over the year so I always grow Big Beef because I know that I will have enough tomatoes for sauce.

I add some heirlooms to the sauce for flavor too but I grow Big Beef specifically so that I know I will have enough fro freezing multiple batches of sauce.

[Blackbear]

As I have found before they sure are easy to poor man's "clone" from the suckers etc. It must be due to their
vigor and disease resistance...

They do deserve more study and trial …….

[TomHillbilly]

@Blackbear-- If you get your hands on a actual F-1 Big Beef plant. And the tomato you collect for seeds, wasn't cross pollinated by a neighboring variety. You will never see any visual morphs in your F-2 plants. Grow them right in there with some F-1's, as a comparison. Collect plenty of seeds--or you will be sorry you didn't. LOL. I've never grew F-3's from Big Beef, no ideal which generation it morphs back. No ideal about growing suckers from a F-2 either.
Beware of cheaper F-1 seed vendors. Many of them are actually collecting like I do. But they sell them as F-1.
Something else I never did. I've never planted suckers. It was always on my bucket list. I just never got it done. I knew a person that grew 80% of her maters from suckers. They was always mighty fine plants.
PS-- Sun-sugar and Sweets Million cherry tomatoes do excellent as F-2 plants also. Both of those are UNSTABLE hybrids-- unlike Big Beef which is stable. Both of those cherries will morph badly as F-3's. Those two are high dollar seeds. Its cheaper for me to buy one F-1 plant every few years, and collect seeds. You, as a Sucker planter, can out do me on plant prices. LOL. You would love Sun-sugar, its the king of sucker producers. I'm blessed to be able to afford any seeds I want to grow. I look at the price factor, as a challenge. I like to bring the cost down like a limbo stick. Never buy into those articles stating your F-2 hybrids will be horrible plants. See for yourself ! Some of those people think suckers are inferior plants also.

[Blackbear]

ah ha ! ….have found 2 sources to start for big beef "dehybridized "

1) Muddy bucket farm

2) Tomato fest

I still don't know the secret of the parents of Big Beef … hmmm guess it is not Buddai Torpe LOL

[Cole_Robbie]

I got some Big Beef OP in a seed swap, but they were not good. That is not to say anything bad about whatever else is being offered out there as a similar product.

I don't grow a lot of big red tomatoes because they are hard to sell at market, too much competition. There are a few I like. I just now planted some seeds of Taos Trail. It performs very well for me and produces similar quality fruit as Big Beef in a smaller plant. I have also grown Jet star f1 next to big beef and the fruit were indistinguishable to me in regard to flavor.

[Blackbear]

It seems hard to tell what you get I guess ...from mere F2 of the original Hybrid ..or an actual ernest trial of a dehybridized form ..
I like the idea of a similar but smaller OP in Taos trail . I have grown jet star f1 as well but big beef worked out way better for me.
Hence the idea of maybe being able to find an OP alternate or substitute ...

[goodloe]

Interesting thread. Big Beef is probably the best all around tomato I have ever grown. I have not saved F2 seeds, but just for schlitz & giggles, I think I will this year. I am in the early stages of "dehybridizing" Chef's Choice Pink, but I'm only at F3....

[TomHillbilly]

@ goodloe----I've never did any "dehybridizing." I've only walked so far down that path, then turned back. But have collected many hybrid seeds. As of yet, I've seen very little morphs in any F-2 tomatoes. And on the times I did, I'm not certain I was duped into buying F-2 seeds. There is also the chance that I collected seeds from a fruit, that was cross pollinated by a neighboring variety.
It's been my experiences that Unstable Hybrids show morphs at the 3 generation. Unless you are young, you might not have the time to actually see the completed changes in your dehybridizing in a stable hybrid. LOL'-'
If you have dehbridtized any varieties. Share what variety, and how long it took, and the end product. I find that stuff interesting. I got a friend that dumps his tomato parts in the same 4' by 4' spot all year. He gets all his late tomato plants as volunteers, from that spot. He's been doing so for over 40 years. He has never gotten any bad plants, or bad tasting tomatoes. And I'm sure he has morphed hybrids, because he plants more hybrids, than heirlooms.
I myself, have seen horrible morphs in cherry tomatoes. Either the fruit is bad, or the plants is so covered with suckers, to where it can't really mature. I've seen none of this in his slicing tomatoes. My fried only throws slicers in that spot. BUT, as I stated before, my knowledge is limited. Because I only go down that path, but a short distant. Every time I look at his spot of volunteer tomatoes I say. "You know, those can morph into a bad variety of tomatoes ?" He always replies, "Who says it can't morph into a great tomato ?" Its a standing joke between us.

[Blackbear]

I never considered the above f2 solution as I would get cheap packets of seeds and grow oodles of big beef from seedlings ..
Then I later figured it was to much grow table space ….so next years I would get a couple of 97 cent seedlings from
Canadian tire and grow them out ….and always use the bottom 9 inch suckers for clone culture ….lots of big beef easy .
But my focus was always on true OP so maybe another way to think of it is "half " OP able to use the seeds for one extension season safely before starting again from the true hybrid. ???

[Nan6b]

I have to disagree with using F2 seeds to get the same plant as an F1. I purposely crossed Anna Maria's Heart with Hardin's Mini. The F1's all looked and tasted the same, as they should. The F2's showed all kinds of variation, in plant size, fruit size, fruit shape, fruit color, and time to maturity. If you do the math on the genetics, the F2 generation is where you will find the most genetic diversity. If you have been having success with the F2 being the same as the F1, I have to guess that both parents of that F1 were very similar to start with. I wouldn't risk it.

[heirl00m]

I have to disagree with using F2 seeds to get the same plant as an F1. I purposely crossed Anna Maria's Heart with Hardin's Mini. The F1's all looked and tasted the same, as they should. The F2's showed all kinds of variation, in plant size, fruit size, fruit shape, fruit color, and time to maturity. If you do the math on the genetics, the F2 generation is where you will find the most genetic diversity. If you have been having success with the F2 being the same as the F1, I have to guess that both parents of that F1 were very similar to start with. I wouldn't risk it.

Cannabis behaves similarly in F2. "Worthless to the grower, priceless to the breeder."