Pepper seed collection 101.

Discussion and tips for growing all types of peppers
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TomHillbilly
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Pepper seed collection 101.

#1

Post: # 19009Unread post TomHillbilly
Sat May 02, 2020 9:44 pm

What I have learned about collecting pepper seeds, through the years ? This is NOT to imply I'm a good pepper grower. I'm less than average on sweet bell peppers. And only slightly above average on mild hot peppers. I don't grow peppers above 10,000 units. I can compare my growing peppers with other's gardens, objectively. 
1. Collecting good germination pepper seeds is about 20 times harder than collecting tomato seeds. Its almost impossible to collect bad tomato seeds.
2. Those common varieties of heirloom pepper seeds, which is available in most green houses. They are very easy to collect. That is why they are common varieties. 
3. Unlike Hybrid tomatoes, in which you can get collected seeds to germinate. I myself, have never gotten a collected seed from a hybrid pepper plant to germinate.
4. I've never seen any hybrid pepper seed that isn't sterile. Goggle says not all hybrid pepper seeds are sterile. I believe the non-sterile hybrid peppers are out there, but I've never seen one.  
5. Excluding the common variety of greenhouse pepper varieties, which are easy---     
A. Some pepper seeds can be collected after the pepper makes its final color change.     
B. Some pepper has to stay on the plant longer still, before collecting.     
C. Some pepper seeds has to stay on the plant, until the pepper fruit starts to dry.     
D. If you wait as long as C demands on some pepper seeds. The seeds turn black, and are useless.     
E, Some seeds can only be collect late in the year-- when the plant is in decline.     
F. Then there is the throw your hands up and say-- "I have no clue when to collect this pepper seed."
6. Most failures is to to premature seed collection.
Most likely no handbook is written when to collect seeds from that rare pepper, you like. That is why its less common. And even the seed vendors mess up often. That is why you have bought bad seed in the past. Its why many people won't collect pepper seed. I like Santa Fe Grande peppers. I like to pickle them. My old seed had ran low, and it was time to collect seeds again. I thought I knew the correct stage to collect. I did it successfully in the past. I collected 400 seeds, and germinated tested them 3 months later. I only got 30% germination. But that is OK, I only want 10 plants. 10 more weeks went by, before I sowed my seed for real. The seed germinated at less than 10% then. Come next year, all seed will fail. This was failure on my part. I failed to collect those seeds at the proper window of time.  I generally mark each individual pepper fruit, I intend to collect from, with a ribbon. But it appears even my tricks couldn't save me from failure. On occasions I still fail at pepper seed collection.
Try to use what I told ya in the above outline to your advantage. Build on what I told ya. I'm running out of time trying to be a good pepper seed collector. I'll never be a expert on it-- but you might ?  PS-- Collecting good squash seed is only 3 times harder than collecting tomato seeds. I can share on that one also. LOL 

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pepperhead212
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#2

Post: # 19011Unread post pepperhead212
Sat May 02, 2020 10:52 pm

I have no problems collecting pepper seeds, and I only have one word as a recommendation - ISOLATE! Bag the entire plant, one branch, or just one stem, before flowers come out, and there should be no problems. Peppers cross very easily, by insects or by wind. Maybe the reason many people have quit trying. I learned this early on, when I saved some seeds, and the plants did not look anything alike, or like the parent plant! I have never had to let peppers dry on the plants, before picking them, but I do let them get very ripe, sort of wrinkled, before picking. I don't save many, just some that I can't seem to find any longer - the rest I buy, or trade for.
Woodbury, NJ zone 7a/7b

rxkeith
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#3

Post: # 19072Unread post rxkeith
Sun May 03, 2020 5:01 pm

i thought once you had decent color change with a pepper, that you could save viable seeds.
what i have learned with peppers is i can't grow yellow peppers worth a darn in my area.
another thing is most pepper seeds won't last more than five years or so. anything much older
than six years just will not germinate.
you have to pay closer attention to seed age or else you will lose them. not a problem for seeds available
commercially, but those hard to find seeds could be gone for good.

i have not seen much evidence of crossing from my saved seeds, even knowing that peppers can cross more easily.
i have done far less pepper seed saving than i have with tomatoes.
i have a bunch of pepper seedlings coming up from store bought muncher size peppers. the red/yellow/orange ones you see
sold in bags at the grocery store. i didn't separate the seeds by color, so it will be a surprise to see what color pepper is
produced. other people said the peppers seemed to be the same from saved seeds, so i'm giving it a go.

no idea why saved seeds from hybrid pepper seeds would fail to germinate.
i would think that if the seed is good, then it should grow. they haven't been
genetically modified with a killer gene to my knowledge.
most of my pepper seed saving is done with the cone/horn shaped peppers which tend to
ripen sooner than the larger bell shaped peppers. socrates is a hybrid pepper i would like to
see what progeny its seeds would produce. nctomatoman craig lehoullier was doing a grow out
of some hybrid pepper he had, might have been a purple one, and was reporting on results each year.



keith

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GoDawgs
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#4

Post: # 19095Unread post GoDawgs
Sun May 03, 2020 8:35 pm

The only pepper seed I've ever collected was from a 'Maule's Red Hot' cayenne. They're big, long suckers. The seed I have now was collected in '16 and I was amazed that they germinated this year as I realized time had gotten by me and I needed fresh seed. Gotta grow one! They must have been collected at the right time (red ripe peppers). I hope this year's collection goes well!

TomHillbilly
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#5

Post: # 19097Unread post TomHillbilly
Sun May 03, 2020 10:11 pm

@rxkeith-- I agree with everything you stated. I myself, have never had pepper seeds to morph from cross pollination. I have never had any problems collecting from the common varieties, that can be bought in greenhouses. The varieties that can't be bought in a greenhouse is entirely different issue. And I've noticed when I'm forced into buying those seeds. The vendor must be having problems himself. Because his seeds really suxed. LOL
I try to collect seeds every third year. But still have enough old seed, in case my new seed fails. I have found, that after 5 years, the seed's germination is to spaced out. One seed might germinate 15 days, before the last seed does. The percentages decline also.
Collecting Hybrid Squash seed is a huge gamble---some is sterile. Those that will sprout a tail, often can't shed the husk successfully. Its not really worth the effort to collect hybrid squash seeds. But some plants can be gotten at times, if you sow in a wet paper towel, by mass numbers. I wouldn't plant them in a heel-- germination is unreliable. Squash seeds is the very last thing to develop. The outside has to be in the hardening cycle. Its hard to get a knife through it. I have better luck collecting butter nut seeds. If the squash has been stored a couple of months. I've had fair results on some Hybrid Cucumbers. But I've not tried many varieties. No morphs in the F-2's cucumber plants that I did try. Heirloom cucumbers are fairly easy. A cucumber has to stay on the vine until the vine is almost dead. A cushaw has to stay on the vine until it dies.
PS-- Waiting until the pepper reaches its last color, is a good practice. But sometimes its not long enough. Common peppers like Cubanelle, and Hungarian Wax, can be collected almost anytime. They store longer too.

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DMF
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#6

Post: # 19251Unread post DMF
Tue May 05, 2020 11:24 pm

TomHillbilly wrote: Sat May 02, 2020 9:44 pm What I have learned about collecting pepper seeds, through the years ?
I've been growing hot peppers of all ilk for years.

Sorry, but of all your observations only the confusion about hybrids is in accord with my experience. (I except the ease of collecting tomato seeds because I have much less experience with it.)

Especially, if the pepper pod is ripe, the seed is viable. "Wait for color" indicates ripeness, and though that's a good thing to do for other reasons (like flavor) pre-colored full-sized pods are usually sufficient. Jalapenoes in particular take so loing to color I often take the green pods. Leaving the pod on the plant thereafter will have no effect, unless you leave them too long -- black germ is due to a fungus invasion.

<hr/>

To collect pepper seeds:
  1. Open a ripe pod.
  2. Scrape out the seeds.
  3. Dry the seeds
  4. Label the dry seeds.
  5. Store them somewhere they'll stay dry.
No goop or placenta to separate. The hardest part is the label. Easy to germinate even years-old seed. [Not all pepper seed is easy to germinate, but all that you'll run into should be (except maybe C.pubescens (Rocoto, Manzano)).

BTW, I'm noticing that seeds from some commercial varieties, like Hatch variants, have very low germination rates from otherwise apparently healthy seeds. I suspect that the growers are irradiating their pods. This does not explain your Santa Fe Grande rate, but 30% isn't unreasonable or unsustainable. And are you sure they were stored dry? I keep mine in the fridge - about the driest spot in most houses.
Last edited by DMF on Tue May 05, 2020 11:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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TomHillbilly
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#7

Post: # 19254Unread post TomHillbilly
Tue May 05, 2020 11:34 pm

@DMF--list what Hybrid variety pepper seeds you collected, that germinated for you ?
Have you ever collect Fante Fe Grande ?
ALL those greenhouse peppers seeds are simple to collect.
PS-- I've never in my life collected any tomato seed that would germinated at 80% 4 years after I collected. That includes hybrids.

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DMF
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#8

Post: # 19255Unread post DMF
Tue May 05, 2020 11:46 pm

TomHillbilly wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 11:34 pm @DMF--list what Hybrid variety pepper seeds you collected, that germinated for you ?
Kindly read my post closely. Like you I have had mixed experience with hybrids. The post primarily addresses your other observations.

About the only hybrid I've pursued was a Peter/Fatalii? cross that had the scent of roses when opened. I collected seeds from the F1 and sent them out to other growers. They (and I) had a relatively low germination rate and very few of the F2 pods were true. The cross was not stable. But the seed germinated.

Like pepperhead, I've had very little trouble with cross-pollination and I rarely isolate.
Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?
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DMF
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#9

Post: # 19256Unread post DMF
Tue May 05, 2020 11:49 pm

TomHillbilly wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 11:34 pm Have you ever collect Fante Fe Grande ?
Never grown it. Want to send me some seeds for a germination test? :)
ALL those greenhouse peppers seeds are simple to collect.
Maybe you should define "greenhouse pepper".
Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?
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TomHillbilly
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#10

Post: # 19284Unread post TomHillbilly
Wed May 06, 2020 9:27 am

For every 8 people that collects tomato seeds. There might be 1 person that will collect pepper seeds. Its like that for a reason. There is a reason volunteer tomatoes will sprout up everywhere in your garden. But you never see volunteer peppers. I never refrigerate ANY seeds, of any kind. I got broke from that years ago. I've down sized to about 80 pepper plants. I used to do well over 100 plants a year, about 25 to 30 varieties. "Maybe you should define "greenhouse pepper". If you don't know the common peppers that all greenhouses sale ? How could you relate to what I'm saying ? You can walk in any greenhouse and see more California wonder peppers, than any other variety. Its the most common grown pepper in America. You may even see different colors, but there is also hybrids in some of the wonder family. You will see Marconi, pimento, cubanelle, sweet banana, Hungerian wax, at least one type of Jalapano, but some in that family are hybrid also--so are some pimentos. At least one type of heirloom Anaheim, either purple or chocolate beauty. I've not time to list the common hybrid peppers you might see sold in a greenhouse. That is why I never listed Keystone, which can be a heirloom, but most likely will be a hybrid version in a greenhouse. I didn't list Big Bertha either. I'm sure off the top of my head, some of you actual pepper growers can list what I forgot. In short, if you had visited many greenhouses, you would have known what are the common varieties they share, in marketing plants. And you would know their heirloom variety of seeds are easy to collect. Its rare to find Santa Fe Grande, in any green houses. Grande is a popular grown pepper in America. Grande is the most popular variety pickled pepper stored on the grocery store shelf. Pabalno is the most common pepper in all of Mexico. Corno di Toro Giallo is a common pepper in Italy. Yet these pepper plants will rarely be found as greenhouse plants. You would have to visit several places, to find them available. Its more easy to grow them from seeds. And after you get burnt with bad seeds a few times. A person will collect his own seeds. Then often he learns there is varieties that are harder to collect good seeds from, than others. And that is why greenhouses don't mess with the sales of them. A greenhouse can't be fighting with seeds that can be finicky.  PS-- I don't grow some type of peter pepper, just because of looks, and smells. If you want some Santa Fe Grande seeds, go to ebay this fall. You can get plenty delivered, for under 3 bucks. You can order from some of the largest seed vendors out there. You let me know what the germination percentages was. Then I'll give you some more varieties, that you might get burnt on also.
Last edited by TomHillbilly on Sun May 10, 2020 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DMF
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#11

Post: # 19297Unread post DMF
Wed May 06, 2020 2:53 pm

I don't think you have collected many varieties of pepper seed.
You'd be wrong. I'm not going to count up my old spreadsheets, but I've grown maybe 120 crops of maybe 60 varieties and collected from them all, including the god-awful "Goat Peppers" that tasted like soap. 2012, I think. Want some seeds?
I never refrigerate ANY seeds, of any kind. I got broke from that years ago.
Currently I have some 250 crop/varieties stored in the fridge. (..in bags, in a box. Never store seeds in a sealed container in the fridge.) I got good germination this year on my 2013-2016 collected seeds.

Interesting that the other experienced pepper grower here seems to agree with me.

But you never see volunteer peppers.
Well, I grow mostly in pots, but when I did grow in-ground, I got volunteers all the time. Is there something wrong with your soil?

[throws stuff at the greenhouse pepper question]
You ultimately seem to define them as those that are easy to collect.

I have no idea how you related these to greenhouses. I don't have a greenhouse. I don't visit greenhouses. Very few growers I know grow anything in greenhouses. Why are you fixated on greenhouses? Do you think I buy plants and seeds from commercial greenhouse growers? All my seeds are from my grows and fellow private growers, mostly hobbyists.

Bottom line to your original post is,

"Some of my seeds don't germinate well. I'm convinced that my problem is my collecting practices."

Yet there are many possible causes of poor germination. Notable among them are storage and germination practices. But you are committed to defending your conclusion rather than exploring other possibilities. Okay, fine. I get it now.
go to ebay this fall.
Worst advice ever! Devalues everything else you have to say. As does the snark.
Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?
- Will Rogers

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DMF
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#12

Post: # 19299Unread post DMF
Wed May 06, 2020 3:11 pm

TomHillbilly wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 11:34 pm PS-- I've never in my life collected any tomato seed that would germinated at 80% 4 years after I collected. That includes hybrids.
Missed this. I started three tom crops this year, all collected from my previous crops of micro-dwarfs. They are manufactured varieties from the nearby Cross-Hemisphere Project, so I don't know if you'd call them hybrids. I would.
  • Uluru Ochre (2017) - The crop was a disaster. Ugly toms were essentially salvage. Most seeds look immature or invaded. 10% germination.
  • Sleeping Lady (2016) 87.5% germination, but four of the seven seem to have the "no growing tip" mutation.
  • Summertime Gold (2016) 100% germination.
Interesting that we have such different results.
Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?
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TomHillbilly
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Re: Pepper seed collection 101.

#13

Post: # 19359Unread post TomHillbilly
Thu May 07, 2020 8:40 am

I posted a " Pepper seed collection 102" so I could supply a picture. That picture I just took today. I'm finished with this discussion. I have visited many professional greenhouses. And I've learned much from the owners. I've also bought many plants there. I still visit them, even until this day. All my cabbage plants still come from there. So does my onion sets, and seed potatoes. I let you readers decide who is full of BS.

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