Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

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Wildcat82
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Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#1

Post: # 53684Unread post Wildcat82
Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:06 am

The big problem we face, as I see it, is that temperatures don't drop into the 80's until very late (last year it was 101 degrees on 1 October here) and our weather gets too cold usually in December. That's a really short window to grow anything. I'm thinking its best to try some short season tomato varieties in containers. I'm curious how others approach this problem.

I bought a couple plants a week ago (2 Sun golds 1 Black Cherry) a couple weeks ago and I'm trying to baby them through the heat with partial shade. I started some seed (Siletz and Fantastico) on 1 August inside with a grow light. I figure I might get the Sun Gold and Black Cherry to start producing in October and have the determinates (Siletz and Fantastico) produce in November.

I've also thought of putting up a little hoop house to extend the season. Anyone else here doing this?

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karstopography
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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#2

Post: # 53696Unread post karstopography
Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:24 pm

I used to when I lived in the Montrose section of Houston. Fall tomatoes did wonderfully there. I fell in love with Carmello (72-75 day indeterminate) variety during the fall season. Had tomatoes off that type all winter long. Had a couple of other types too, can’t exactly remember which, but everything produced. The Houston heat island moderated the winter chill quite a bit, though and that helped a ton.

My buddy on Clear Lake is doing a fall crop currently. He says they are doing well. Not sure what type and they aren’t fruiting just yet. He might of put them in just 2-3 weeks ago. He’s got seed for several types, I’ll try to find out more.

I plan on a fall crop someday, but this wasn’t the year. Nematodes have been an issue with previous autumn efforts at this house. Plants haven’t thrived well so far in the fall, I didn’t try this year at all. I also get much cooler nights out here in the semi-rural area than central houston and that can work against the tomatoes in the fall as the fall gets into winter. Kind of depends on the winter.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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worth1
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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#3

Post: # 53714Unread post worth1
Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:29 am

Mats wild cherry will produce tomatoes all summer long into the first cold snap in Central Texas.
Not big but it's a tomato.
Your smaller tomatoes are more geneticly related to the first wild tomatoes from what I've read.
Just like the wee chilie peppers that are abundant in people's yards.
Mine survived last winters cold snap.
Worth
25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.

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karstopography
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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#4

Post: # 53718Unread post karstopography
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:22 am

Somewhere in Texas is a dividing line. My BIL in SouthLake right above Ft. Worth had beautiful, healthy, full sized tomato plants out in the full, no shade, no shade cloth, Texas sun loaded with tomatoes of various sizes and ripeness on July 31st of 2021. I was there that day and saw it all for myself. At least a couple of full sized heirloom types and several other hybrid tomato plants, German Queen was one, can’t really remember the rest. He has a sandy loam soil there as far as I can tell and these tomatoes were in the ground, not containers. Beds were slightly raised.

People as far south as were I am really struggle with keeping anything other than the small types, cherries, grapes, maybe a few others going all summer long. I’ve tried to extend it the season for larger tomatoes on past early to mid July, but with all the disease and other varmint pressures it’s been an uphill battle and just not worth it.

So if you are in more northerly parts of Texas with some care and cultivation and maybe a favorable site, you can have good and full sized tomatoes all summer long, albeit, your first tomatoes will be way later than the folks get much to the south.

And if you are enough to the south and/or an urban heat island, you can have a fall/winter crop of tomatoes.

Of course, years vary, weather varies, and all that can help or hurt things and that’s true for any place including Texas. Where I am, the late February to July time frame is the easiest and most productive stretch for tomatoes. The highest reward for the relatively least amount of effort season.

But, even in Texas, you can’t follow one simple rule to time your plantings and such. Site and Local conditions and urban heat islands complicate things. Soils matter, rainfall, etc.

There’s no way to formulate a comprehensive “this is how and when tomatoes should be grown in Texas plan” , way too many variables to even try.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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worth1
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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#5

Post: # 53730Unread post worth1
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:16 pm

Balconies Escarpment is one of many dividing lines in Texas.
I live south of it.
Never had so many problems until I moved south of the line.
Out in Crane Texas they practically took care of themselves with a little water.
The same when I lived in between Lampasas and San Saba right on the county line.
Never knew or experienced blossom drop until I moved to Angleton south of Houston on the coast.
It's enough to make someone pull their hair out.
I bet Alpine Texas would be a great place to grow tomatoes.
High elevation low humidity cool nights.
If I could I would live there.
I fell in love with the area years ago.
Worth
25 miles southeast of Waterloo Texas.

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#6

Post: # 53742Unread post karstopography
Sun Sep 12, 2021 3:12 pm

Yep, Fredericksburg and Leakey and those places west of the Balconies Escarpment hold onto cooler nights much longer in the summer and get them much earlier in the fall. The Trans-Pecos where Alpine is a whole other deal. The trans-pecos by itself is bigger than the 11 smallest states. The little area around El Paso has 94% of the people, the rest of it barely has anyone. My Dad and I once drove from Marfa to Ruidosa, TX on the Rio Grande on 2810, what a great drive! Went right through the Chianti Mts. and beautiful desert and mountain scenery. Not much vehicular traffic. Plenty of Pronghorns up near Marfa. I like that country out there. Too many trees all bunched up and limited horizons gives me claustrophobia. I get that closed in feeling in the some of the Texas Piney Woods and parts of New England.

There’s even a meaningful difference in the context of tomatoes between living in the middle of Lake Jackson versus 1,000 feet west of the city limits. My nights here west of town are a few degrees cooler in the prime tomato setting period in Spring and I get a little longer into the season window than I did in the heart of town. It’s very easy to see this data on WU with the multitude of personal weather stations set up around the various areas of town. The ones in town are consistently warmer than outside of town, especially at night, and especially if the wind is down. A few degrees cooler overnight can be the difference between a tomato setting fruit and a blossom dropping off. The coolest temperature areas are ones in areas with big live oak forests, I happen to be in one such area.

Even moderate sized towns sort of create their own temperatures. With the Major cities, the effect is huge.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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Wildcat82
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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#7

Post: # 53748Unread post Wildcat82
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:41 pm

worth1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:29 am Mats wild cherry will produce tomatoes all summer long into the first cold snap in Central Texas.
Not big but it's a tomato.
Your smaller tomatoes are more geneticly related to the first wild tomatoes from what I've read.
Just like the wee chilie peppers that are abundant in people's yards.
Mine survived last winters cold snap.
Your peppers survived the big February cold snap? Those are some amazing peppers. It was 8 degrees here.

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worth1
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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#8

Post: # 53749Unread post worth1
Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:47 pm

Wildcat82 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 4:41 pm
worth1 wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 8:29 am Mats wild cherry will produce tomatoes all summer long into the first cold snap in Central Texas.
Not big but it's a tomato.
Your smaller tomatoes are more geneticly related to the first wild tomatoes from what I've read.
Just like the wee chilie peppers that are abundant in people's yards.
Mine survived last winters cold snap.
Your peppers survived the big February cold snap? Those are some amazing peppers. It was 8 degrees here.
Wild peppers native to Texas and Mexico.
The wee little ones I can't spell the name of.
Very popular in Mexico.
Tipen is one word for them.
Worth
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You might as well be arguing with a cat.

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#9

Post: # 53752Unread post karstopography
Sun Sep 12, 2021 5:17 pm

https://www.centraltexasgardener.org/re ... le-pequin/

Yep, the plant can freeze down, but it will come back from the roots.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#10

Post: # 53761Unread post Wildcat82
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:41 pm

karstopography wrote: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:22 am
People as far south as were I am really struggle with keeping anything other than the small types, cherries, grapes, maybe a few others going all summer long. I’ve tried to extend it the season for larger tomatoes on past early to mid July, but with all the disease and other varmint pressures it’s been an uphill battle and just not worth it.
I experimented this past summer with a few hot season tomatoes. Planted 3 Heatmaster, 1 Big Beef, 2 cloned Arkansas Traveler, and 2 Tycoon tomatoes in July. Those 4 varieties are usually mentioned as the most heat tolerant varieties on the market. I got about 10 golf ball sized tomatoes. You're right - not worth it.

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#11

Post: # 53762Unread post MissS
Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:54 pm

@Wildcat82 Most people in Texas have a spring crop and then perhaps a fall crop which they start seeds for in July and hope for tomatoes before the first frost. Summers down there are just too hot. Sometimes I will hear of people struggling to keep their plants alive through the summer hoping that they will then produce come fall. Most say that it is too much work and easier to start seeds in July rather than combating the bugs and diseases of summer.
~ Patti ~

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#12

Post: # 53768Unread post karstopography
Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:14 am

My old neighbor was one of the late type of tomato growers. He’d get around to preparing his beds maybe at the end of March and get in his tomato sets by the second week in April. WAY too late for our area to get anything but a short little burst of production well into June then the valve gets turned off by the hot nights. Maybe he’d get 3-4 weeks of fruit. He did this schedule year after year. The neighbor across the street usually had his tomato sets in the ground at least a month earlier. Others I know put their sets in a month before that.

This far south, it isn’t really soil temperatures that are the limiting factor on getting things in early, it’s the potential for late frosts. Clear, dry, still air nights that radiational cooling allows a quick fall of the temperature to around freezing. This kind of thing happens sometimes in February moving into March here. By 10 or 11am the next morning it’s often rising into the 60s, but the damage gets done by the brief little frost if the tomatoes aren’t covered by freeze cloth or a bucket or something.

Most tomato growers that are looking for peak production over the longest period gamble on getting their sets in as early as possible. This year many of us including myself lost with the mid February record shattering freeze. This coming winter we might not get a freeze at all, you just never know.

I think fall tomatoes are a bigger gamble or even trickier on timing. You got to get a little lucky on the nights cooling off enough early enough in the late summer or beginning of fall to get a good fruit set. Your tomatoes need to be flowering by then. You have to try to manage and mitigate full summer conditions hot and humid and hot soil disease pressures on the plants themselves at the beginning of their growing cycle.

But, if you are in one of the big Urban heat Islands like Houston you can wait later to put in yoir sets when summer is essentially about over. October, November and even well into December can offer good weather for tomatoes. The burning heat is gone until next year. The city heat generated by all the structures and activity and stored in the pavement radiates so much heat overnight to way moderate most all but the most severe cold snaps. I imagine San Antonio and maybe even Austin are big enough and far enough south that if you are well into the city the otherwise cool nights and any late fall early winter chill gets moderated.

Then there are areas along the big bays, the barrier islands like Galveston, Mustang, Padre that have their own timing and all that temperature moderating water to consider. Then moving south towards the Rio Grande Valley, they certainly have a different schedule. I don’t remember seeing any posts here from any tomato growers in the most southern reaches of Texas.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#13

Post: # 53770Unread post PlainJane
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:12 am

Here in north Florida I have about the same conditions as Houston. I’ve tried fall tomatoes 3 or 4 times for full sized and it just doesn’t work. This year I’m going to try micro tomatoes and see if that gets me anything.
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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#14

Post: # 53782Unread post Wildcat82
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:14 am

karstopography wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:14 am

Most tomato growers that are looking for peak production over the longest period gamble on getting their sets in as early as possible. This year many of us including myself lost with the mid February record shattering freeze. This coming winter we might not get a freeze at all, you just never know.

I think fall tomatoes are a bigger gamble or even trickier on timing. You got to get a little lucky on the nights cooling off enough early enough in the late summer or beginning of fall to get a good fruit set. Your tomatoes need to be flowering by then. You have to try to manage and mitigate full summer conditions hot and humid and hot soil disease pressures on the plants themselves at the beginning of their growing cycle.

This is exactly why I have been thinking about building a small hoop house to extend the season in both Spring and Fall. Our spring and fall seasons are just too short here.

Building a small hoophouse wouldn't cost that much and I could heat it with a simple electric crock pot if need be. I figure my hoophouse idea could allow me to plant a month earlier in Spring and extend the season a month in the Fall. Do you know of anyone who does this?

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#15

Post: # 53783Unread post karstopography
Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:46 am

@Wildcat82 seems like I have seen this hoop house thing around, maybe on a local forum or just driving around. I don’t know any details, though. Sounds like a solid idea.

Fall/winter gardens are my favorite in general. So many vegetables do well here on the gulf coast from October through April and I think where you are around San Antonio, the winter garden area is right there and running west towards Ulvade. I get cool weather crops like Cabbage, Kale, Spinach, Carrots and the like on the brain in the fall and just neglect putting effort into doing more of the warmer weather things like tomatoes, peppers and such in the fall season.

If you can manage those otherwise unexpected damaging outbreaks of chilly weather with the hoop house system, then you could potentially have tomatoes all winter. You just need some luck from the weather and not get any prolonged Arctic/polar air like we had last February. That outbreak was very atypical, most years I barely touch 30 degrees where I am.

I’m still trying to figure out what I want to grow and when I should grow it. Add to that a limited space to grow vegetables and some potential vegetables just don’t make the cut and then don’t get planted. I mostly get my fill of garden tomatoes in the spring and freeze a bunch of the eccess along the way so getting a fall crop of tomatoes isn’t such a priority for me.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#16

Post: # 53792Unread post Wildcat82
Mon Sep 13, 2021 1:42 pm

karstopography wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:46 am
Fall/winter gardens are my favorite in general. So many vegetables do well here on the gulf coast from October through April and I think where you are around San Antonio, the winter garden area is right there and running west towards Ulvade. I get cool weather crops like Cabbage, Kale, Spinach, Carrots and the like on the brain in the fall and just neglect putting effort into doing more of the warmer weather things like tomatoes, peppers and such in the fall season.

I
I’m still trying to figure out what I want to grow and when I should grow it. Add to that a limited space to grow vegetables and some potential vegetables just don’t make the cut and then don’t get planted. I mostly get my fill of garden tomatoes in the spring and freeze a bunch of the eccess along the way so getting a fall crop of tomatoes isn’t such a priority for me.
I am trying brussel sprouts this fall. Growing sprouts in the upper midwest was easy but down here I can't figure out when is the best time to plant. The gardening center told me to put out plants the later part of August but that seems too early. Your really want to have the sprouts to get several hard freezes to bring out the good flavor. I set out 6 plants on 1 Sept and started seed the same day. Depending on the weather I figure one of the 2 batches will do ok - I'll either get a December harvest or an early February harvest

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#17

Post: # 53796Unread post karstopography
Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:16 pm

I put Brussels Sprouts sets in in mid October into November.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#18

Post: # 53797Unread post worth1
Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:32 pm

I tried cabbage in the early spring late winter total fail.
Caterpillars ate me alive.
Worth
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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#19

Post: # 53801Unread post karstopography
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:45 pm

https://www.sustainablesanantonio.com/w ... r_2019.pdf

This planting calendar looks pretty solid for Bexar County. Gives a broader range of viable planting dates, most local planting calendars are too narrow on their date ranges in my experience.
Zone 9b, located in the Columbia bottomlands, annual rainfall 46”

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Re: Any Texans Growing Fall Tomatoes?

#20

Post: # 53803Unread post Wildcat82
Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:49 pm

karstopography wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:45 pm https://www.sustainablesanantonio.com/w ... r_2019.pdf

This planting calendar looks pretty solid for Bexar County. Gives a broader range of viable planting dates, most local planting calendars are too narrow on their date ranges in my experience.
That calendar is put out by Fanick's Nursery. I've had a couple of long talks with Mark Fanick at his nursery . The guy knows his stuff. On the other hand Texas A &M's advice on any garden subject is, to be charitable, iffy.

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