Where adventurous gardeners buy their seeds...

[pondgardener]

https://pressnewsagency.org/where-adven ... eir-seeds/

[Tormahto]

I'm looking for a Nigerian prince to sell me some rare seeds. But, he wants the last four digits of my SS# and my mother's maiden name. Adventurous enough?

[slugworth]

Amazon seeds shipped from China are always magical.

[worth1]

I just bought some from the last king of Scotland Idi Amin.

[Tormahto]

I just bought some from the last king of Scotland Idi Amin.

Did the seeds taste like chicken?

[bower]

That's a great article, @pondgardner . Experimental Farm Network has some very cool stuff, especially if you want to grow something that will adapt to your (changing) climate. Many of the breeders at the OSSI breeding forum contribute to, and also buy seeds from, EFN. All have been enthusiastic about their purchases, so maybe time to add EFN to the ol preferred seed vendors list.
https://store.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/
They are not just seed sellers, there are breeding projects for interested people to join here:
https://www.experimentalfarmnetwork.org/

[Paulf]

Do seeds actually grow better with a political statement...or make the world better depending on that political bent...? Just sell me seeds that do not support some crazy ideology but do support someone trying to supplement an income and make their world a better place...and my garden more productive.

[MissS]

I have a problem with people saying things like this in their catalogs: 'Oh My' Black Hybrid Swarm Tomato - $15.00 per 20 seeds and then goes on to say "Casey put years into the development of these seeds, and the reality is, once you buy them, you can save the seeds yourself and keep growing these varieties for years to come."

“A true ‘Mountain Miracle,’ this large pink heirloom ["new heirloom"] is sure to become a backbone of your heirloom production. Early, productive and crack-resistant, this hybrid swarm is the product of many years of breeding by Wild Mountain Seeds at 6400’ in Carbondale, Colorado

So these must be open-pollinated and stable "hybrids" which of course there is no such thing. Then to top it all off they are now calling their new 'hybrids' 'new heirlooms'.

None of this gibberish makes any sense to me.

Excuse me, I am off to search for a listing that I saw for some Bright Blue Roses.

[Tormahto]

Do seeds actually grow better with a political statement...or make the world better depending on that political bent...? Just sell me seeds that do not support some crazy ideology but do support someone trying to supplement an income and make their world a better place...and my garden more productive.

Do they grow better? Maybe.

On a cold day, stick a politician on one side of your plant, and you on the other side. All that hot air coming at you may warm up the plant.

[Whwoz]

Do seeds actually grow better with a political statement...or make the world better depending on that political bent...? Just sell me seeds that do not support some crazy ideology but do support someone trying to supplement an income and make their world a better place...and my garden more productive.

Do they grow better? Maybe.

On a cold day, stick a politician on one side of your plant, and you on the other side. All that hot air coming at you may warm up the plant.

Not to mention all the fertilizer that the politician would be providing at the se time

[slugworth]

frankenfood

[Tormahto]

frankenfood

AlFrankenfood?

[habitat-gardener]

It's a good article, and it sounds like most people didn't read it. I have no problem with the pricing. Anyone is free to shop elsewhere. As with all garden adventures that eventually assign prices (that includes selling one's own plants!), if no one buys or if the effort of selling becomes unsustainable, the prices will fall or the items will no longer be offered. I sold some plants last year, because someone in town offered driveway space to a half-dozen people to sell their seedlings. She's doing it again, but I don't plan to schlep a couple carloads of seedlings across town again. Though I sold enough to cover my seed-buying for the year, few people were interested in uncommon varieties. It's easier to just grow what I can plant and then give away a few extras.

I love that there is a place like this that offers unusual seeds.

[Tormahto]

I didn't click on the article, because the thread title had me thinking about black markets, or unknown mystery seed packs. When I went to the experimental seed site, and read "landrace", I figured Joseph was involved. Now to weed out what not to order.

[bower]

I have a problem with people saying things like this in their catalogs: 'Oh My' Black Hybrid Swarm Tomato - $15.00 per 20 seeds and then goes on to say "Casey put years into the development of these seeds, and the reality is, once you buy them, you can save the seeds yourself and keep growing these varieties for years to come."

“A true ‘Mountain Miracle,’ this large pink heirloom ["new heirloom"] is sure to become a backbone of your heirloom production. Early, productive and crack-resistant, this hybrid swarm is the product of many years of breeding by Wild Mountain Seeds at 6400’ in Carbondale, Colorado

So these must be open-pollinated and stable "hybrids" which of course there is no such thing. Then to top it all off they are now calling their new 'hybrids' 'new heirlooms'.

None of this gibberish makes any sense to me.

Excuse me, I am off to search for a listing that I saw for some Bright Blue Roses.

I too have a wee problem with a "hybrid swarm" taking so many years of breeding that they sell for $15 a pack. The reality of stabilizing an OP is that it is long and hard slogging to stabilize that elusive favorite. A stable OP is a lot more work than releasing something unstable.
I don't personally have any use, either, for unstable tomatoes selected for the tendency to outcrossing. This would be a tomaticide mission in my climate and in greenhouse, where I strictly select for plants that self pollinate reliably without any buzzing or extra work on my part. But a lot of people seem to really enjoy those projects and are having fun with it, working to create a constantly mixing population of tomatoes.

Being a breeder I have lots of crossed material, I like doing crosses and I like to choose the parents myself for my far-out climate. I do think the EFN are probably too far south for much of it to be helpful to me.
OTOH there are advantages for the gardener within the US regions who is not a breeder but wants to select for regional adaptation, in being able to buy material that is in process but not yet stable. Genetically unstable plants, even tomatoes, are more able to adapt to unusual conditions. Anyone who has a specific problem, whether it's heat, cold, humidity, disease etc, might find something in an unstable batch of seeds that finds its own way and adapts to the situation.
There are advantages to being able to buy a "grex" or mixed "landrace" material in one packet, if you're just testing to see if there's a type or several types of grain that do well, or a brassica that overwinters, or a squash that resists your local pest, or... fill in the blank your exploration of an unfamiliar crop to suit a specific use or environment.
The point of 'landrace breeding' also seems to be, to find ways for nature to continually combine and stir the pot and select by harshness of the seasons in your specific place. Where nature does the work of mixing and making the winners and losers, all you have to do is save and plant the best seeds... there's a lot of good in that notion.

[greenthumbomaha]

I haven't read the article, but I was going to post about something similar I stumbled upon when researching another topic. The website is Benray.com. They have a section for "future flowers". Taste can be changed by adding sugar to the soil, a mood changing plant color and one other I can't remember. They said in a decade we will be able to enjoy these efforts with whatever successes result from breeding towards these goals. Some great imagination at work. I wonder what the world will be like then.

-Lisa

[Acer Rubrum]

I got some Pueblo Highlands Landrace squash seeds from the Experimental Farm Network. I like the idea of forgotten varieties being brought back and the description says they taste great. Plus a squash that can handle a bit of frost would be a good thing here in South Dakota. I'm only planning to put in two plants this year, because that's the limit to my space in the one isolated area I can use for them. But if they do well and taste good, I'm definitely saving seeds.

I agree with Bower that there's value in getting a mix of types (or buying grex seed where the initial mixing is already done) and letting Mother Nature do the selecting. My oldest son is actually doing this with onions. He does a ton of work in my mom's garden and they grew a lot of onions last year. She eats the onions that are starting to have problems and saves the ones that are keeping well. In the spring my son plans to plant out the onions that have lasted well to get seed from them. They consist of several varieties and will obviously cross, but we should get some good keepers out of it. Then he'll mix in the varieties from this year's crop for seed next year. After that, he plans to go with all his own seed. Should be an interesting project and it keeps my mom in onions.

[wykvlvr]

I too have a wee problem with a "hybrid swarm" taking so many years of breeding that they sell for $15 a pack. The reality of stabilizing an OP is that it is long and hard slogging to stabilize that elusive favorite. A stable OP is a lot more work than releasing something unstable.
I don't personally have any use, either, for unstable tomatoes selected for the tendency to outcrossing. This would be a tomaticide mission in my climate and in greenhouse, where I strictly select for plants that self pollinate reliably without any buzzing or extra work on my part. But a lot of people seem to really enjoy those projects and are having fun with it, working to create a constantly mixing population of tomatoes.

One place I have started a "blog" of my attempts with my micro tomatoes is a Permaculture forum. So yes there is a lot of buzz about Lofthouse and his crossbreeding tomatoes. So the first paragraph of my House Tomatoes project page includes a nod to him and explains why I will be working towards the exact opposite of his project...

The goal is micro dwarf tomatoes that grow and produce well inside at normal house temperatures and conditions with the only supplement being extra light. If they can work on a window sill that would be even better. This project is almost the total opposite of the tomatoes Joseph Lofthouse and others are working on. My tomatoes must be self fertile as there will be no or very few insects to pollinate the flowers. Tapping, buzzing or brushing your plants a couple of times a day will take the place of insects and wind. They must be happy in the average house temperature and produce good tasting tomatoes that make people want to grow them for the flavor not just as a novelty. At the same time they must also be capable of being grown in a pot outside if folks have room and want to do that.

Of course for now it only covers plans we will see what happens in the future.

[zeedman]

I followed the link, and explored the seed companies mentioned... IMO their selection fell far short of what was promised in the article. Not that much was unusual, or adventurous (except for a Northern adapted pigeon pea, which I may order). If I want unusual, I can always turn to Baker Creek, Kitazawa, or SSE for as much unusual as I have time & space for. If I want adventure, I can roll the dice & order seeds from Etsy.

[slugworth]

I got suyo long cucumber seeds from baker creek that turned out to be squash seeds.
not the same flavor profile.