Single Stem and Minimum Spacing.....

Toomanymatoes · #1

Yes, I know the topic has been discussed aplenty.

I was just curious if anyone here has spaced single stemmed indeterminate tomatoes 12" apart in an outdoor garden bed? and what your experience was/is?

Normally I single stem and space 18" apart. Works fine for me for the most part. However, I am most interested in growing more varieties and maximizing my space than worrying about maximum production.

My current garden is a keyhole style bed in which I plan to have 3 rows of tomatoes, a walking path and then 2 more rows of tomatoes. There is a walking path all around the entire bed as well.

The rows will be 18" apart, although they are staggered so the plants are more like 19" apart. I am considering reducing the space between plants within each row to 12", 14" or 16". Just not sure. The space between rows will stay the same.

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I don't get too many diseases here in the summer, only at the end of season. I also plan to top all my plants after the 3rd truss (and maybe 4th in some cases, but unlikely). I likely won't get ripe tomatoes after the 3rd truss.

Trellis will be baling twine dropped from aircraft cable spanning U- or T-posts. I have not purchased the posts yet, they will either be 7' or 8' so a total height of 6' or 7' (2 or 3 posts per 16' row).

Ultimately, I would love to have a garden like the Youtuber Lucky Garden. His set-up looks amazing to me!

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PlainJane · #2

I’d say if your disease pressures aren’t that bad try it out on the right side with the 2 rows.

bower · #3

I've tried two to a container at 12 inch spacing, and got mixed results. Some plants, especially bigger beefs it seems, can go vegetative if the competition is too leafy/close. I've had a few disappointments over the years, where I didn't get a single fruit from some varieties when densely planted. Or you may get a half dozen or less, on a plant that's too shaded. You may see a big difference, where the plants at the end of the row are pumping out many more while the second one suffers worst from the competition.
Mind you I am not an avid pruner and probably could've kept them thinned out a lot more, which could make the difference.
Cherries or smaller fruits tend to be more forgiving of the tight space, in my experience.
IDK about dwarfs because I haven't grown many.

Toomanymatoes · #4

PlainJane wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:22 am I’d say if your disease pressures aren’t that bad try it out on the right side with the 2 rows.

Yes, I was considering doing just a row or two to test it out. Probably the best solution.

Bower wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 7:41 am I've tried two to a container at 12 inch spacing, and got mixed results. Some plants, especially bigger beefs it seems, can go vegetative if the competition is too leafy/close. I've had a few disappointments over the years, where I didn't get a single fruit from some varieties when densely planted. Or you may get a half dozen or less, on a plant that's too shaded. You may see a big difference, where the plants at the end of the row are pumping out many more while the second one suffers worst from the competition.
Mind you I am not an avid pruner and probably could've kept them thinned out a lot more, which could make the difference.
Cherries or smaller fruits tend to be more forgiving of the tight space, in my experience.
IDK about dwarfs because I haven't grown many.

I know there was one gardener on TV that was experimenting with single stemming and did state that some varieties were more negatively impacted than others. So, I am sure the combination of SS and close spacing would not be great for some. I am actually going to be double planting my 20G containers for the first time this season as well. Normally I don't single stem the plants in these containers or remove too many suckers. They have always grown very well with decent production. Going to try single stemming and topping. If I get 12 tomatoes per plant, I would be happy with that.

bower · #5

@Toomanymatoes lots of work but worth it. I haven't stopped experimenting with different container sizes, spacings etc. to try and squeeze a few more in. I was really surprised at the amount of fruit from a plant in a maybe 2-3 gallon hort pot with the right mix that doesn't dry out too easily. I had one plant in the small pot that probably produced enough small fruit to fill the container it was grown in, that was getting light all around. Siblings planted tight together in a row didn't produce nearly the amount. But it was plenty to evaluate taste and save seeds if I like them. Another row, some were in small pots some in pairs in ample (more than 5 gal apiece) containers but spaced about the same, pretty tight about a foot. And I had at least one plant in the deeper container that produced just a handful, about the same as those crowded small pot ones. So it isn't so much the dirt limit, it's definitely light limit for me here.
Pruning hard is the effective way to manage those that are reluctant to set fruit. If you have any that don't set in the first two clusters, just top the plant above the third cluster before it opens flowers, for your best bet.

Toomanymatoes · #6

Bower wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 11:00 am @Toomanymatoes lots of work but worth it. I haven't stopped experimenting with different container sizes, spacings etc. to try and squeeze a few more in. I was really surprised at the amount of fruit from a plant in a maybe 2-3 gallon hort pot with the right mix that doesn't dry out too easily. I had one plant in the small pot that probably produced enough small fruit to fill the container it was grown in, that was getting light all around. Siblings planted tight together in a row didn't produce nearly the amount. But it was plenty to evaluate taste and save seeds if I like them. Another row, some were in small pots some in pairs in ample (more than 5 gal apiece) containers but spaced about the same, pretty tight about a foot. And I had at least one plant in the deeper container that produced just a handful, about the same as those crowded small pot ones. So it isn't so much the dirt limit, it's definitely light limit for me here.
Pruning hard is the effective way to manage those that are reluctant to set fruit. If you have any that don't set in the first two clusters, just top the plant above the third cluster before it opens flowers, for your best bet.

Thanks for the info! I do grow in 5G container as well, but just dwarf and determinates. I keep wanting to try "French Dwarf Pruning" on some indeterminates in a 5G, but this year I am not growing any tomatoes in my 5G containers. My goal is to find a new property that gives me plenty of space to work with so I can do all types of experiments. Growing out 50 to 100 F2's from a cross would be fun for me!