bboomer wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 7:49 pm Bad news all around. I thought that wild hogs could be controlled via hunting. A Texas Monthly article a few years ago said hunters loved the taste and would never go back to commercial pork. A business in South Texas flew hunters around in helicopters to harvest the pests. It was called "Flying Bacon."
Asian Carp is just bad, bad, bad. I thought that some control could be achieved via harvesting--despite many bones the fish is supposed to taste good. The other mode of control was to use the darned things as fertilizer or pet food.

The more you kill them the faster they breed from what I've heard.
The good Pork taste is from the sows not the boars.
I cringe when BBQ experts say pork is tasteless.
They've never had good pork.

One basic problem with hunting hogs for meat, is the simple fact that you aren't bleeding them and cooling them immediately after the shot. LIvestock needs to be bled for best taste, as there is so much fat to go rancid. Hogs, even wild hogs, have lots of fat. Game can't be bled that way, it is simply not the way it works. It doesn't matter much for deer, because deer don't carry their fat the same way. With deer, it was always the "running deer" that is supposed to taste less good. In modern terms, that is lactic acid buildup in the muscle...at least the way I look at it. A relatively calm deer that you put an arrow or bullet through the lungs only runs 7 seconds and then piles up. There is no time for the meat to be spoiled in any way.

This is also why you'll never see any Jewish hunters. By definition, game meat cannot be kosher, as it can't be bled. To be kosher it takes a qualified jewish butcher slashing the throat. That bleeds the animal quickly, which makes for better tasting and longer storing meat. In the old days in hot climates, it is also safer, as it ensures unspoiled meat. Deer can be kosher, if farm raised and ritually slaughtered, but not if hunted and killed as game. Rabbits can't ever be kosher - mammals need both cloven hoof and to chew cud. This is btw the basic reason that hollywood movies, after the 1950s, are so generally anti-hunting, in case no one realizes that. It is simply not part of the culture of hollywood money.

Someone asked about the taste of deer, well you have to keep in mind that beef that is fed corn in Kansas will taste about the same as beef that is fed corn in PA. But the deer won't taste the same, their diets will be much different. PA deer are mostly dependent on mast. Also the size and how much fat they need to put on for winter will change the taste. Deer taste excellent, here. Salt pepper thyme is about all you need. Fawns are very tender and light, whereas a big old doe will be tougher and a dark red. Aging the meat is important for making steaks from older deer, but the best roast will come from a nicely aged buck rump. Most meat that I eat is hunted, gamebirds or deer. If I eat pork, I instantly think "greasy". When I eat beef, I think "fatty". If I eat chicken, I think "bland". Not necessarily bad, but very noticeable.

svalli wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 1:42 am

TomatoNut95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:40 am Goof grief.
Sounds like the spread of the African killer bees. I watched a Monster Quest show about those evil things. Animals/wildlife are dangerous, and most people don't understand that relocating stuff that's not native is really asking for it.
I get so mad at people the way they do animals, wild or not. Another monster quest show featured a semi-abandoned town in Illinois that had packs of feral dogs (descended from abandoned pets) roaming around and some were known to attack and kill people for no reason. What's even dumber is that people are leaving the dogs to roam, not killing or capturing them.
People do not know how to handle animals, they're dumber than the animals themselves.

During centuries people have a lot of stupid things by relocating animals and plants from another side of the world.

In 1934 Finnish immigrants in Minnesota gifted white tail deer to Finland, because the native wild forest reindeer, roe deer and moose were hunted to almost extinction. One buck and four does survived the trip by boat and were taken to a farm. In 1938 the deer escaped to wild. In 1948 the population was already about 100 animals and then few more animals were flown to Finland to get more genetic diversity. Hunting was allowed 1962, when the population was about 1000. Now the population is estimated to be about 98 000 and it is listed as invasive alien species.
There are many other introduced species which are now listed as invasive, for example American mink, Canada goose and Asian raccoon dog populations have grown to cause problems.

Wild boars are considered native, since there are 8000 years old boar bones found in Finland. Cold climate and hunting wiped out the boars from Fennoscandia, but during last 50 years they have been coming back. Population is still quite small, but enough to cause havoc in potato fields and gardens.

Whitetails are very adaptable. They are the premier edge cover herbivore. However they are big enough that they could be eradicated, if they need to be. Hogs could be too...if it is important enough. But like worth said, a lot of big landowners are making big money off them by selling hunts.

It is a matter of willpower, if it is important, they big enough to find and get rid of. On the other hand, rabbits in Austrailia....

Found it,

TomatoNut95 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 11:59 am I wish I had a hunter in the family that helped me experience that stuff.
What does rabbit taste like? And deer? Is it similar to chicken or pork? Can you brown deer or rabbit meat like you're cooking a beef patty for burgers? Can you roast it? Fry it?
Hmm. I wonder what spaghetti and deerballs or rabbitballs is like.

Cottontail (bunny rabbits around here ) are lean. Taste like... bunny rabbit...best way is slow pan braised, more than hour, sometimes 2 or 3 hours, until they soften up. Cut into 6 pieces. You leave the fat on. Make gravy from the drippings to serve alongside.

Deer, you can make deer burgers, sure. They aren't dripping fat unless you mix in some fat with them. I like bacon grease mixed in right before grilling.

Most every time I've had spaghetti is with a pound of venison fried off and then mixed into the sauce.

Roasts, deer roasts are typically bone in, a shoulder roast (or split into arm roast/blade roast) will be 4-5 hours at 250 or so, wrapped in foil. Then it falls off the bone. That is skinned but that is it, no need to trim, leave the fat cap on. Mustard and onion soup mix is a nice simple one. Good hot, then the leftovers are great chilled.

Rump roasts are probably the best roast but that uses up a lot of good quality meat, whereas the shoulder is often more worthwhile to roast since it might only be a few lbs of meat per shoulder, not worth deboning, and has more stringiness to it. A good rump roast will be cut about 2" down from the joint, the whole top, forward to where the loins were cut out.

Frying steaks is dependent on the skill of the butcher and how the meat is treated. Steaks will be tough if you cut them out of a freshly killed deer. Cut the loins out of a hot deer and put them in the fridge, and they will shrink 20% of their length. The carcass has to go through rigor, with muscles still attached to the bones, or the muscles will shrink and never relax (tough). The carcass has to stay cool enough during that 24hrs so as not to spoil. That is the real key to good venison, the first 24 hrs. It is a tough call in September and October when it is hot during the day and not that cool at night. Down South I expect that keeping meat cool without field butchering is a real issue during the entire hunting season.

I've shot young cottontails that were tender when fried.
Never bothered with the full grown ones.
Same with squirrels.
Shooting a dear in the hotter parts of Texas requires a big refrigerator or ice chest to cool for a day or so.

JRinPA wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 11:26 pm

svalli wrote: ↑Fri Jul 05, 2024 1:42 am

TomatoNut95 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 04, 2024 11:40 am Goof grief.
Sounds like the spread of the African killer bees. I watched a Monster Quest show about those evil things. Animals/wildlife are dangerous, and most people don't understand that relocating stuff that's not native is really asking for it.
I get so mad at people the way they do animals, wild or not. Another monster quest show featured a semi-abandoned town in Illinois that had packs of feral dogs (descended from abandoned pets) roaming around and some were known to attack and kill people for no reason. What's even dumber is that people are leaving the dogs to roam, not killing or capturing them.
People do not know how to handle animals, they're dumber than the animals themselves.

During centuries people have a lot of stupid things by relocating animals and plants from another side of the world.

In 1934 Finnish immigrants in Minnesota gifted white tail deer to Finland, because the native wild forest reindeer, roe deer and moose were hunted to almost extinction. One buck and four does survived the trip by boat and were taken to a farm. In 1938 the deer escaped to wild. In 1948 the population was already about 100 animals and then few more animals were flown to Finland to get more genetic diversity. Hunting was allowed 1962, when the population was about 1000. Now the population is estimated to be about 98 000 and it is listed as invasive alien species.
There are many other introduced species which are now listed as invasive, for example American mink, Canada goose and Asian raccoon dog populations have grown to cause problems.

Wild boars are considered native, since there are 8000 years old boar bones found in Finland. Cold climate and hunting wiped out the boars from Fennoscandia, but during last 50 years they have been coming back. Population is still quite small, but enough to cause havoc in potato fields and gardens.

Whitetails are very adaptable. They are the premier edge cover herbivore. However they are big enough that they could be eradicated, if they need to be. Hogs could be too...if it is important enough. But like worth said, a lot of big landowners are making big money off them by selling hunts.

It is a matter of willpower, if it is important, they big enough to find and get rid of. On the other hand, rabbits in Austrailia....

Agree with you about Rabbits in Oz, Hunting, Mixo and Calcivirus have all knocked numbers down but they are far from out. We have several others that are starting to get the same way, Deer are bad in a lot of bush areas, pushing out onto a lot of farmland that boarders bush. Then we have Carp in our waterways that are difficult to control, although by restoring the waterways it would appear that a certain amount of control is occurring and a number of pest bird species are also here.

Even if they let people on the property to hunt hogs I probably wouldn't go.
I'll let people that get a kick out of killing something have their fun.
As for deer the same thing.
It's the heat here in Texas that turns me off.
To me hunting game involves the weather being cold enough so the meat doesn't spoil and the parasites are down.

I couldn't possibly imagine trying to deal with a large animal in 80 degree weather.
Now small game is something else.
I've always liked hunting and harvesting small game.
My trusty 28 guage has never let me down in over 50 years.
Head shots on rabbit and squirrel without the meat parts being ruined with pellets.
I've often wondered how many great white hunters would hunt if they had to walk into a forested area and carry out a deer or hog on their back.
That's the way we did it.
No fancy gas powered contraptions back then.
And even if we did you couldn't get one in there.
I remember hauling a doe on my back down a creek for about a mile or more to the house one time.

worth1 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 11:16 am No a smokehouse won't kill the flavor.
It's something you just have to experience.
I think people that like the taste can't taste anything because they're too drunk.

Nah worth! I don't drink and I have eaten lots of smoked pork. Both farm raised and wild. I love cajun Tasso, both farm raised and wild. Tasso is the Cajun equivilent of smoked western beef jerky for those who don't know. Tasso is thicker than jerky and is intended to provide smoke flavor to many dishes.
My wife must eat a limited diet which her stomach can handle. She loves bacon and eats a few strips each morning. I purchase three lbs of Aldis applewood premium sliced bacon for my wife. I have an electric grill which will cook one lb of bacon takeing about one hour to cook three lb's. I freeze the cooked bacon and she gets a few slices out each morning and nukes it a few seconds to thaw it.

We're talking wild stinking boar not sows or farm raised pork.
The tasso may cover up the smell but I have no idea.
I've read the Germans eat boar.
Maybe that's why they are so grumpy.

https://www.popsci.com/article/science/ ... ctive-eat/

Boar taint.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boar_taint

Now my boar feels bad,still has his nads though.Yes he has a presence around him but we still love him.I have bushes of citronella he lays in for the skeeters.Helps somewhat.

Love the hat @Kurt .

Hogs being at the feeding trough.
Whatch out you'll lose a finger.

While we are on the subject of hogs.Iuse a grunting snorkeling call for NoName(boars name)he charges and stops.Cause he knows it feeding time! There are contests for calling.

https://www.google.com/search?q=pig+cal ... e&ie=UTF-8

Thanx made my day.

JRinPA wrote: ↑Sat Jul 06, 2024 11:15 pm … If I eat pork, I instantly think "greasy". When I eat beef, I think "fatty". If I eat chicken, I think "bland". Not necessarily bad, but very noticeable.

Based on your descriptions of these meats, I'm guessing you might like the taste and texture of goat. I've only had it once, but it was lean, flavorful, and not fatty or greasy. It reminded me of beef, but without the fatty or super chewy parts.

I still haven't deer gyros but goat might be good there too.

That video reminds me of old town buffet....merely fat people like us would stare agape at supremely obese families (right down to the 7/8 year olds) struggle to get up out of the booth to waddle to the food bars, pile multiple plates, and waddle back. And I have no idea why, it was just regular food with mediocre flavor.

So boar taste bad...well now that I'm thinking about it, that warthog was still alive at the end of The Lion King. Simba probably didn't want to deal with that smell. Nothing to do with hakuna matada, after all.

@JRinPA
I was at a place in Anchorage Alaska Golden Corral or some such thing.
I saw a kid eat himself sick he went back so many times.
He was around 10 years old and very overweight.
I can't believe his parents let him eat like that.
I could put it down when I was young also but I wasn't overweight, not even close.

There was a golden corral up in Emmaus. Gone now I think. That is pronounced E MAY US by us english but in pa dutch it is more like E MAAS. I think I went to it once, steaks, salad bar etc, like bonanza and ponderosa. Maybe a fried shrimp or seafood nite that I missed. Certainly nothing special.

The place I was talking about is called Old Country Buffet. not old town. That didn't look right. I could picture red letters on gray. I should have known that was wrong when I couldn't decide how to spell it Town or Towne. Okay yeah it is red letters on tan, Old Country Buffet, Lancaster, Reading, Downingtown PA. So three locations places, all in the southeast pa/dutch country. Reading location, we went to a couple times when we were over there. There are some famed buffets down where buggys drive but this is more a copycat.

The big one everyone used to drive down to was Shady Maple. Each night was a different special main course. Opened in the 80s, got famous pretty quick. I first went there with the football team. Well part of it. The offensive line coach, after our last season was done, took us senior lineman down to Shady Maple. Now, I considered myself a threeback, not a lineman, still do, told them I wasn't going, but they just about shanghaied me. The thing is, my high school ran a great power I. First junior high, then senior high, same systems, just more complicated in high school. It was so much fun, straight forward, hard hitting. Threeback is often the lead block or kicking out the end, it was fun, a good threeback got to wallop someone practically every play with a head of steam or on a play action, or smack a linebacker and let him think he shook you off then catch a 15 yard seam pass, wide open. Very rarely did my assignment help make a tackle. You hit them enough times and they start to jump out the way making a huge hole. I was a big kid with good feet and hands and smart enough, so it was super fun. (In 9th grade junior high I was 215lb tailback. So many times it was 5-7 yards and then finally a big pile on top of me. But in high school the class ahead had two fast backs already, so they shifted me to threeback for lead blocking.) It was super fun until the other schools started videotaping practices and stealing the signals between coach and QB. It was at first shocking to break huddle for a slot left zip blast right and have the middle linebacker calling out blast right blast right and shifting his defense before I even went in motion. Yep, coaches cheating in high school, they were stealing signs to steal athletic scholarships for their "student athletes". High School sports is supposed to be building the character of the next generation. Not teaching them that cheating is okay as long as you win.

So an era ended and the school changed coaches and systems and our senior year was ruined. I ended up a delaware wing T tight end as a senior instead of a power I threeback. WingT actually uses two threebacks, sort of, but they are little scat back types for running counters, not blockers. Basically it was a system built for undersized teams to try to compete against bigger kids. What a terrible, boring system that was to play, all misdirection instead of pancaking defensive ends hip to pit. Even the gaps had different terms. And the defense was different too, so instead of me playing middle linebacker / nose guard depending on the front, I was out at Defensive End, which I was terrible at. Had never played end before, didn't have the speed or height to contain and couldn't read keys from there, after 4 years of anchoring the center of the defense and just worrying about the fullback on passes when in a 4-3. Looking back, even my shoulder pads were wrong for defensive end, it was hard to even get my arms up to block passes, I think the pads were too wide maybe. I can picture two good ends from earlier classes that had narrower shoulders and shoulder pads. Certainly narrower builds. Anyway, WingT, ugh, boring system and guess what, defenses were calling those plays out too, they telephoto lensed and video taped and learned those signs too. Cheaters. That year we would hear, Sally at 7 sally at 7, the defense calling it out just like the QB did in the huddle. (that is the only play name I remember from that system, honestly. The new football coach would elbow you and wink, ha, get it, sally at 7? No respect for that guy, came up from Philadelphia to fill the job, and was a terrible gym teacher to boot. Just had no class in my opinion.)

Cheating in high school football, thanks to technology and athletic scholarships. Those schools really taught their kids a life lesson - it is okay to lie and cheat to win. Some of those schools already had huge football teams, so many good athletes per class that they could already run two whole squads, a dedicated offense and a defense without kids playing both ways. Whereas we always played both ways, best 11 guys on the field for nearly every play unless you got hurt.

Ahh, anyway, so okay fine I'm a lineman now, even though I wore a 30 series number, whatever, so feed me. We are 6 or 7 big boys, plus one big coach, in a van for an hour ride to Shady Maple. First time I was going to shady maple. You would hear shady maple mentioned, and it was like hushed tones and giddy nodding. Get there, kind of nice, we got a big table right near the doorway to the buffet bars. At first I didn't eat much, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. The others are all eating some sort of steak. I had shrimp, pies, cakes, crab cakes, all kinds of stuff. As everyone else was getting full and sick, I just kept chugging along steadily...the food was so good, then I finally found what there were eating. It was prime rib night. I think I ate three plates of prime rib after most everyone had slowed to a stop. It was pretty good, medium rare. The coach finally said I had to stop, we had to leave. I tried to get a doggie bag for more pie but NO DOGGIE BAGS since it was a buffet. Then an hour drive back to home and everyone had pigged out and thought they were gonna throw up. I seem to remember the coach pulled over at least once to let someone out. I got to admit, it was a pretty fun night and I'm glad they made me go. There aren't that many dinners in a life that can be specifically recalled, and that is definitely one of mine.

The next time I went back was a bit later, and it seemed different. Well, it was different. Here they had capitalized and expanded, new building, tripled the size and downgraded the staff and food. So instead of a big pan of from scratch baked mac and cheese, it looked like a disposable aluminum tray pan of stouffers or whatever, heated from frozen. They claim it is the same recipes...frankly I don't believe that a bit. I have been there many times, with much diminishing returns. I just do not believe it is the same food, and the atmosphere was worse practically each time. It has probably been 8 years since we took a birthday trip down (you eat free on your birthday). I don't think Shady Maple is anything like it was that first time I was there.

But old country buffet, that place had some enormous families. I don't think we went back a third time, it was hard to watch, literally not enjoyable, the food nothing special at all. I remember a girl, like probably 5th grade and 200 lbs with parents to scale. Shady Maple was never like that. It ran the gamut with the customer base. Old Country Buffet clientele was seriously weighted toward over-eaters. Shady Maple got so big, such a long walk to the buffet, that may be part of it. Or maybe Reading simply has some of the fattest people around? And from table to buffet line at Old Country Buffet is like 50 feet round trip, whereas Shady Maple in the new building could easily be 400-600 feet round trip.