worth1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:07 am I had someone years ago give me a whole boat load of deer meat ground up into chili meat.
They said is had been in the freezer for almost a year and probably wasn't any good but the dogs would eat it.
Yeah right.
I made chili with it.

And likely more than anyone else, here, you know the reason why chili was invented.

Tormato wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:09 am

worth1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:07 am I had someone years ago give me a whole boat load of deer meat ground up into chili meat.
They said is had been in the freezer for almost a year and probably wasn't any good but the dogs would eat it.
Yeah right.
I made chili with it.

And likely more than anyone else, here, you know the reason why chili was invented.

I've heard all the stories about it being used to mask spoiled meat and so on.
The same with other spices.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Spices were worth their weight in gold and wouldn't have been used for such things that many years ago by poor people thar couldn't even afford the spices.

I do know of a guy that worked at a grocery store in Llano Texas about 40 years ago that said when chicken was about to go bad they would wash it off and put spice rub all over it for grilling.
I was 21 at the time and I've never bought pre spiced anything before or after that revelation.

worth1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:27 am

Tormato wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:09 am

worth1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:07 am I had someone years ago give me a whole boat load of deer meat ground up into chili meat.
They said is had been in the freezer for almost a year and probably wasn't any good but the dogs would eat it.
Yeah right.
I made chili with it.

And likely more than anyone else, here, you know the reason why chili was invented.

I've heard all the stories about it being used to mask spoiled meat and so on.
The same with other spices.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Spices were worth their weight in gold and wouldn't have been used for such things that many years ago by poor people thar couldn't even afford the spices.

I do know of a guy that worked at a grocery store in Llano Texas about 40 years ago that said when chicken was about to go bad they would wash it off and put spice rub all over it for grilling.
I was 21 at the time and I've never bought pre spiced anything before or after that revelation.

My guess is that most spices were expensive, hot peppers had an overabundance, and the first food close to being chili consisted of but two ingredients.

Tormato wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:42 pm

worth1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:27 am

Tormato wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 11:09 am

worth1 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:07 am I had someone years ago give me a whole boat load of deer meat ground up into chili meat.
They said is had been in the freezer for almost a year and probably wasn't any good but the dogs would eat it.
Yeah right.
I made chili with it.

And likely more than anyone else, here, you know the reason why chili was invented.

I've heard all the stories about it being used to mask spoiled meat and so on.
The same with other spices.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Spices were worth their weight in gold and wouldn't have been used for such things that many years ago by poor people thar couldn't even afford the spices.

I do know of a guy that worked at a grocery store in Llano Texas about 40 years ago that said when chicken was about to go bad they would wash it off and put spice rub all over it for grilling.
I was 21 at the time and I've never bought pre spiced anything before or after that revelation.

My guess is that most spices were expensive, hot peppers had an overabundance, and the first food close to being chili consisted of but two ingredients.

The Mexican indigenous people AKA Indio didn't really eat much meat..
Just like the poor of Europe.
The chilies were made into a sauce and corn tortillas were dipped into it or maybe the chilies were put in a tamal or some such thing.
Fruits were also used.
The term chili con carne literally translates to peppers with meat.
Nothing else to speak of.
Not all of these chilies AKA peppers were hot.
The bell pepper in Mexico is known as pimento.
My conversations with the Mexican guy at work revolves around food most of the time.
His English isn't great and neither my Spanish.
But my knowledge of what things are called in Spanish helps a lot.
He was trying to tell me what was in a tamal and I said Frijole negro and he understood immediately.
What we call cumin is called comino.
Garlic ajo red or purple garlic ajo rojo.
Onion is cebolla.

Etc etc.

Surprisingly the poblano at the store is still way cheaper than the jalapeño.

Tormato wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 12:42 pm My guess is that most spices were expensive, hot peppers had an overabundance, and the first food close to being chili consisted of but two ingredients.

Most spices were expensive because it took months to ship them back to Europe. It also meant that many of the spices used in Asia and India couldn't be traded because they were only good fresh. That put the emphasis on pepper, cinnamon, and others which could be dried, or fermented and dried, for shipment. Transport by water didn't really get goods back home much faster, but it did mean you could haul more.

Sugar also stored well if kept dry. Unlike most spices it literally was worth its weight in gold when it arrived in Europe, but it was treated more like a drug than food for quite a while. Basically until growing it with slaves in Brazil made it cheap enough to use in desserts instead of honey.

Peppers from the Americas arrived about the same time as sugar plantations were being establish and paprika started to be used. But getting paprika varieties with the right amount of heat that could be grown locally took a while. So from before the Middle Ages practically up to the Renaissance most spices still came from the East. They weren't cheap enough that everyone had access, but the nobility, clergy, and merchant classes all did.

And if he has a well aged deer carcass and a crowd to feed, the cook wouldn't have minded using ginger, pepper, or cinnamon along with local herbs to spice up the meat. Feasters would have been flattered by the use of spice and would have blamed it for any digestive issues rather than the quality of the meat. I'm not suggesting it was common practice, but certain times of year meat was harder to obtain than spices. Especially in winter when lots of feasting was expected for holy days. And the spices weren't going to keep much more than a year anyway given quality and storage methods.

As for chili, it probably originated in Texas. Italians generally didn't like heat and most European cuisines were heavily influenced by Rome. Tomatoes took a while to make inroads because what passed for Facebook at the time thought they were poison. Hot chilies were associated with hellfire. The were grown for "medicinal" use but didn't make it onto the table for a couple more centuries.

The grocery chain where I regularly shop let it be known some time ago that they were fixing prices until the end of January, to help people through the tough times as it were. Except of course, it's now the end of January....
Well of course I went shopping today and picked up a few items that I wouldn't want to see shoot up when I'm flat out of em. The prices were up a little anyway afaict on staples like cooking oil, flour and the tinned apricots which I like.
Went to check the seafood and found these bags of precooked tail on shrimp on special for $7, and the sign said "SAVE $6". Which basically means the regular price will be shooting up from $10 to $13. I buy when they're on special anyway, but this time I got two. Also the squid rings I've been enjoying had disappeared for about a month, and now they're back for the same price in a smaller bag. It was a great deal, the $10 bag, so it's probably still a good deal, but one of the blatant examples of 'shrinkflation' on the shelf.

@Bower
I'm just a little curious as to how you cook a squid ring.
Seems like they would never get tender.

These are a breaded squid ring @worth1 . I don't know if or what they do to tenderize them, but we cook em in a bit of oil in the oven, flip once to crisp both sides. Tender enough.
My Dad used to pressure cook the squid in bulk to tenderize it. After that it just breaks up into rings of its own accord, and you can use it for all kinds of dishes. Stir frys and so on. Very tender and delicious, after it's pressure cooked whole with the skin on. I don't have the machine, but also haven't seen any whole fresh squid in years.
We also used to stuff the whole squid and bake it.

@Bower
The ring in the picture is a squid ring AKA US Navy.
We had some sort of fried squid square thing in Prudhoe Bay.
Tough as a rubber boot and fishy as a rotten minnow bucket left in the sun.

My only remembrance of eating squid some 45+ years ago, was thinking that someone played a joke on me, and served me breaded rubber bands.

I love eating fried squid, especially the tentacles.

karstopography wrote: ↑Sun Feb 12, 2023 8:48 pm I love eating fried squid, especially the tentacles.

I need to get a grip on my food phobias.

Squid and octopus are both really good if cooked right. Either real fast or a long slow cook will make them tender and yummy.

I like dried squid in hot sesame oil.
Fried squid rings.
But those nasty rubber things they served were horrible.
But those people could ruin boiled water.
The mashed potatoes could be poured.
I did it right in front of the cook one time and asked him what it was.

I also like smoked squid salad.

Noticed the plastic bag of Kraft caramels are now 11 ounces. Same price as the used to be 16 ounce bags that dropped to 12 ounce bags, now at 11 ounces. Haven't seen any "fudgies" tossed in for a very long time either.

Saltine shrinkage?

I bought a box of Great Value saltines and several of them were rectangles. I've never noticed a rectangular saltine in about 60 years of eating them. I measured the square ones at about 46-47 mm X 46-47 mm. The rectangles were about 41 mm X 46-47 mm. Next time I think I'll weigh them.

Tormato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:36 pm Saltine shrinkage?

I bought a box of Great Value saltines and several of them were rectangles. I've never noticed a rectangular saltine in about 60 years of eating them. I measured the square ones at about 46-47 mm X 46-47 mm. The rectangles were about 41 mm X 46-47 mm. Next time I think I'll weigh them.

Great Value.

worth1 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 2:24 pm

Tormato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:36 pm Saltine shrinkage?

I bought a box of Great Value saltines and several of them were rectangles. I've never noticed a rectangular saltine in about 60 years of eating them. I measured the square ones at about 46-47 mm X 46-47 mm. The rectangles were about 41 mm X 46-47 mm. Next time I think I'll weigh them.

Great Value.

It gets worse.

The local WalMart hadn't stocked any 1 lb boxes of GV saltines for many, many months, just the high end brands costing 3X - 4X the GV price. Then they started stocking some GV in 10+ ounce celo packs at $1.78 each. Finally a small supply of the 1 lb boxes at $1.29, are coming in. It doesn't sound like much, but I go through a lot of tea and saltines in the winter. Not much in the summer, as an opened pack loses its crispiness in about a day.

I wasn't expecting that there were any 1 lb boxes any longer! I figured they were smaller, like everything else - maybe they just use the old boxes up, until they are gone. I just got a 14 oz box of baking soda last week. They may have been around for a while, but it's been quite a while since I got the last 1 lb box.

Tormato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:30 pm The local WalMart hadn't stocked any 1 lb boxes of GV saltines for many, many months, just the high end brands costing 3X - 4X the GV price. Then they started stocking some GV in 10+ ounce celo packs at $1.78 each. Finally a small supply of the 1 lb boxes at $1.29, are coming in. It doesn't sound like much, but I go through a lot of tea and saltines in the winter. Not much in the summer, as an opened pack loses its crispiness in about a day.

OK, I had to get up and go look at the boxes of GV saltines we just got. They're still the one pound box of the same square ones we've always had for ages. They must be messin' with y'all up there! And yes, the price has gone up. We started buying them when they were .76 a box. Then they went to .78 in Oct '21 until they took a big jump to $1.12 last June. All of a sudden. Wham! Fortunately they're still $1.12 here.

Pickles twists the top of the wax paper tube(gently! don't want any busted crackers!) and clips it with a clothespin. They seem to stay fresh that way.