This is my first year using an EarthBox, I had to try them due to Fusarium in the main garden. I followed instructions exactly, using Sungro Professional Potting mix, synthetic 8-10-8, and started with the snack when blossom end rot appeared. That's mostly under control, but the tomatoes that I'm picking have an excessive amount of hard, white material through the fruit (especially in the top half), as if undeveloped or unripened. The tomato generally looks normally ripe, and the bottom couple of slices taste good. This Africa Queen was one of the earliest and worst examples, but all varieties have it to some extent.

If anyone has any experience with this, what it is and how to fix it I'd sure appreciate the help. Thanks!

Have you ever grown that variety before? I get that with some new varieties, in which every fruit is like that, nand never grow them again! It's usually at the top, sort of like the core is just spread out, while others just have a small core. I have one new one this year - Prime Rib - that I have to cut a generous amount out each time. It's growing the same as others, and none of the rest have the problem. Maybe someone else has an answer to it, but I just assume it's the variety.

PS1452 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 11:32 am This is my first year using an EarthBox, I had to try them due to Fusarium in the main garden. I followed instructions exactly, using Sungro Professional Potting mix, synthetic 8-10-8, and started with the snack when blossom end rot appeared. That's mostly under control, but the tomatoes that I'm picking have an excessive amount of hard, white material through the fruit (especially in the top half), as if undeveloped or unripened. The tomato generally looks normally ripe, and the bottom couple of slices taste good. This Africa Queen was one of the earliest and worst examples, but all varieties have it to some extent.

If anyone has any experience with this, what it is and how to fix it I'd sure appreciate the help. Thanks!

African Queen.jpg

This looks like fruit from some of the viruses a tomato plant can get. Definitely not what African Queen should look like. Do you have some whole plant and also upper leaf photos?

I had that on a total of 3 heirlooms tomatoes last fall. They set fruit early and matured when it was still really hot. The later tomatoes from the same plants were fine. I thought it had to do with heat related stress causing the uneven ripening of fruit. I had googled the symptom and found something.

Marsha would be the expert when identifying when things don't go as planned.

Most of the time it is caused by excessive temperatures as the tomato is forming. Temperature fluctuations can also be a cause. Another reason this happens is excessive fertilizer use. Like BER, this is not a disease just an indication of one or all of the conditions above. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Excessive heat is causing ALL my tomato plants to be about half normal size and the tomatoes about three weeks later than usual. Strange year.

Hi Marsha - thanks for taking a look at this (and thanks for the seeds for it!). The plants are in real bad shape now so I won't bother with current pictures; this one is from June 13th when it first started, the tomato pic was July 1st. Leaf margins turning black, then the entire leaf would turn dark, leathery and eventually dry up. It started on older leaves at the top then slowly worked its way down. Looked similar to fertilizer burn (the margins) or when the entire leaf became involved burn from an oil spray on a hot sunny day.
All six of the EB plants really struggled in spite of a regular spray program; if it's viral as you suggested that would explain the lack of response to sprays. The in-ground plants were mostly killed off by a combination of fusarium and early blight, but none of them had the fruit issue like the EB ones do.

Barb_FL - the later tomatoes aren't as bad as the first one pictured, but still have it to some degree, and it's been getting hotter the last few weeks. I didn't think it was uneven ripening disorder as the fruit looks OK (not splotchy) on the outside.

Paulf - None of the in-ground tomatoes have this happening, and I've never seen it in 40 years of growing, except in these EB's. I've been wondering about the excessive fertilizer, since I started the snack (1 tsp calcium nitrate per box weekly) exactly one week before the symptoms appeared. I started using it due to bad BER on most plants, and the plants looking pale and needy. None of the other plants have the burned looking leaves though.

During our hottest year I had lots of that, too. What a drag it was to have to cut away so much before using them. The heat seems to cause deficiensies. Similar to some diseases they say.

Description here. http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/IPM/english ... rders.html

PS1452 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:52 am Hi Marsha - thanks for taking a look at this (and thanks for the seeds for it!). The plants are in real bad shape now so I won't bother with current pictures; this one is from June 13th when it first started, the tomato pic was July 1st. Leaf margins turning black, then the entire leaf would turn dark, leathery and eventually dry up. It started on older leaves at the top then slowly worked its way down. Looked similar to fertilizer burn (the margins) or when the entire leaf became involved burn from an oil spray on a hot sunny day.

African Queen 6-13-2020.jpg

All six of the EB plants really struggled in spite of a regular spray program; if it's viral as you suggested that would explain the lack of response to sprays. The in-ground plants were mostly killed off by a combination of fusarium and early blight, but none of them had the fruit issue like the EB ones do.

Barb_FL - the later tomatoes aren't as bad as the first one pictured, but still have it to some degree, and it's been getting hotter the last few weeks. I didn't think it was uneven ripening disorder as the fruit looks OK (not splotchy) on the outside.

Paulf - None of the in-ground tomatoes have this happening, and I've never seen it in 40 years of growing, except in these EB's. I've been wondering about the excessive fertilizer, since I started the snack (1 tsp calcium nitrate per box weekly) exactly one week before the symptoms appeared. I started using it due to bad BER on most plants, and the plants looking pale and needy. None of the other plants have the burned looking leaves though.

Seeing your ohoto, I don't think it's viral after all. It could be the heat. Or too much fertilizer, but I really don't know that much about fruit with uneven ripening due to heat or fertilizer. Those leaf tip burns are likely fertilizer excess, but would that cause uneven ripening. I'm stumped, very sorry.

I have seen something like this a few times and on store tomatoes as well. With internal white tissue the outside of the tomato can look perfectly fine without blotchy ripening appearance on the outside.

From what I read a long time ago they mentioned heat stress and possibly insufficient potassium. But they didn’t know the cause for sure, maybe they do now. (Lack of potassium can also cause yellow shoulders which is sometimes mistaken for sun scald but that is another issue.)

Internal white tissue

https://ipm.ifas.ufl.edu/pdfs/Tomato_Disorders.pdf


Just curious, How much of the calcium nitrate did you add weekly?

Too much of one nutrient can impact another.

Potassium deficiency can show up in leaf margins, tannish looking or brown scorching.
I see that in your leaves but I don’t know the cause.
(Added: I find it hard to distinguish nutrient deficiencies or toxicities. Especially pictures on the internet. I also saw this in workshops where they sometimes looked very similar. Even the instructor said professionals cant always tell without testing, And sometimes a nutrient excess mimics a disease, which I just saw when I overdosed with micronutrients.)

White tissue: in your case, Maybe heat and susceptible variety?
Potassium issue? The thing with the potassium you did use a balanced fertilizer and I guess the 1 tsp of cal. nitrate. -so K would seem to be more than adequate. With no excessive nutrients (ie too much calcium nitrate) interfering with uptake. Which sun gro mix did you use?

Another picture of them much further along would maybe help identify a disease, etc. though that may be unrelated.

Yes, I would like to see the plants in their current condition and a close up view of new leaves.

So I just did some googling, and all the stuff I'm reading is saying very high heat combined with low potassium levels, and susceptible varieties. Here's one of several articles: https://extension.umd.edu/learn/tomato- ... -potassium

Hey all - I am becoming more convinced that it's potassium deficiency, which I never completely ruled out but I just couldn't figure how it made any sense. As MsCowpea said it seems like there should be enough K, and the article that Marsha linked to states that it can be any number of reasons why they're not taking it up properly. Here's an African Queen that I picked yesterday. And here's Captain Lucky today, note the browning foliage as I described earlier, and the green shoulders on the fruit (not fully ripe yet, but they'll still be there when it is ripe). MsCowpea - This is the potting mix that I'm using. Thanks to all that have offered ideas and suggestions. I have learned so much from this forum, and previously, the "other one". I truly appreciate everyone taking the time to comment.

Dave

Dave, I'm seeing heat stress, and from earlier photos, fertilizer burn. I was looking for Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus, or Tomato Yellow Leaf Curl Virus, no evidence of those or any other viruses. The soil mix is excellent, I don't think that's the problem. It's not unusual in any heirlooms to see green shoulders along with rest of the fruit being ripe. Can you find a water soluble fertilizer that's high in K, or potash? Like a bloom fertilizer? That won't help current fruit but might help newly forming ones.

Ginger2778 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 3:50 pm Dave, I'm seeing heat stress, and from earlier photos, fertilizer burn. I was looking for Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus, or Tomato Yellow Leaf Curl Virus, no evidence of those or any other viruses. The soil mix is excellent, I don't think that's the problem. It's not unusual in any heirlooms to see green shoulders along with rest of the fruit being ripe. Can you find a water soluble fertilizer that's high in K, or potash? Like a bloom fertilizer? That won't help current fruit but might help newly forming ones.

Before we bought the boxes we were concerned about them getting too hot so we did get white to help a little bit at least. They're in full sun all afternoon so I've been wondering about the roots getting overheated; also, until I can fix it next year they're getting some water from the drip hose that's been in the sun. FYI normal this time of year is 93° / 73°and humid so it's always a struggle.

Yes, we have a couple of different bloom foods on hand, I'll look to see if either is appropriate to use on vegetables.

Re fertilizer burn, I noted earlier that I started supplementing the granular in the box when the plants went from a healthy dark green with good growth to pale and slow growth. Are you still using the full one pound of synthetic in the mix, and calcium nitrate also? I've suspected possible fertilizer burn since it started, so lately I've been alternating small amounts of fertilizer (Miracle Gro Vegetable, Texas Vegetable) one week, then the cal nit the next. Can you suggest a better feeding schedule?

I never did understand the calcium nitrate amendment as it did not provide any additional potassium to tomato plants when they require it.
I get that people use the calcium for BER and extra nitrogen when it may have become depleted but tomato plants need potassium, for flavor, etc. (Though people who use the snack are pleased with results so insufficient K may not be an issue for them as the season progresses. (***Added: or else they are just not aware that they may have insufficient K or other marginal nutrient levels. I have often wanted to send a leaf sample off to see an accurate analysis but not practical for home gardener.)

I looked up your NPK and found Hi Yield Garden Fertilizer. That one doesn’t have any calcium or any other nutrients other than NPK. Not sure which fertilizer you used.

Actually, your alternating fertilizer regime seems pretty good as both products ( MG and TTF) have potassium and you are still alternating with the calcium. ( Plus The Texas Tomato Food also has calcium. )

Since you have been supplementing K, maybe heat stress is taking a toll???

The reason I asked about the potting mix as I read in another thread, another forum about a person that had used Sungro SEED STARTING mix in their SWC . That one is very fine and water retentive.

I was just watering from a hose that was snaking around in the grass in the sun. That water was HOT .

‘Normal’ green shoulders on heirlooms is indicative of better flavor. When they bred it out they lost flavor.


So a person has to distinguish between a potassium deficiency problem and a desirable heirloom trait.

MsCowpea wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 5:34 pm I never did understand the calcium nitrate amendment as it did not provide any additional potassium to tomato plants when they require it.
I get the calcium for BER and extra nitrogen when it may have become depleted but tomato plants need potassium, for flavor, etc. (Though people who use the snack are pleased with results so insufficient K may not be an issue for them as the season progresses.)

I looked up your NPK and found Hi Yield Garden Fertilizer. That one doesn’t have any calcium or any other nutrients other than NPK. Not sure which fertilizer you used.

Actually, your alternating fertilizer regime seems pretty good as both products ( MG and TTF) have potassium and you are still alternating with the calcium. ( Plus The Texas Tomato Food also has calcium. )

Since you have been supplementing K, maybe heat stress is taking a toll???

The reason I asked about the potting mix as I read in another thread, another forum about a person that had used Sungro SEED STARTING mix in their SWC . That one is very fine and water retentive.

I was just watering from a hose that was snaking around in the grass in the sun. That water was HOT .

‘Normal’ green shoulders on heirlooms is indicative of better flavor. When they bred it out they lost flavor.


So a person has to distinguish between a potassium deficiency problem and a desirable heirloom trait.

Yes ma'am, you have a winner with the Hi Yield! Agreed, it really doesn't have much going for it other than a decent basic NPK for tomatoes.

Note that I'm using the Texas Vegetable Food not the tomato, I feel like it's better for the rest of the peppers, cukes, squash, etc. that I grow. I was buying both but had to settle on one.

I will definitely be looking for something that I can use to supplement the potassium. We are going to be moving to all EB's for tomatoes next year, and I've got to get this right. Maybe one out of three or four years the fusarium stays dormant long enough for a good in-ground crop.

Maybe the pictures I used were bad examples of green / yellow shoulder, we've had some that had a distinct yellow spot about the size of a quarter that soon after bringing in to finish ripening developed a rot in that spot. I have learned that the bottom half of most heirlooms is usually the best eating anyway, get a few good slices and move on to the next.

When you put in the snack, are you also putting in some Epsom salt? My snack is 1 teaspoon down thr tube and 1/3 to 1/2 teaspoon od MgSO4(epsom salt) at the same time, because all the hydroponics folks say you will cause a magnesium deficiency with the Ca(NO3)2 if you don't also add the epsom salt. I bet that might also be causing potassium uptake to be thwarted.

Ginger2778 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 26, 2020 9:45 pm When you put in the snack, are you also putting in some Epsom salt? My snack is 1 teaspoon down thr tube and 1/3 to 1/2 teaspoon od MgSO4(epsom salt) at the same time, because all the hydroponics folks say you will cause a magnesium deficiency with the Ca(NO3)2 if you don't also add the epsom salt. I bet that might also be causing potassium uptake to be thwarted.

Sorry, I neglected to mention earlier that yes, I am adding 1/3 tsp Epsom salt along with the 1 tsp calcium nitrate per box (per your previously posted instructions / suggestions!).

How does one check the ph in an Earthbox? PH that is off can affect nutrient uptake.

Growing Coastal wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:42 am How does one check the ph in an Earthbox? PH that is off can affect nutrient uptake.

That is certainly a valid point. I do have a pH meter, and no I haven't checked it. Being a first year box I would expect it to be on the low end since the lime may not have had a chance to fully "activate" in it.