What to start seeds in?

OhioKate
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#41

Post: # 62206Unread post OhioKate
Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:25 am

For seed starting I use Burpee compressed blocks. They are fairly cheap from Home Depot (about $3 each) and easier for me to store. For potting up I use ProMix HP as it's the most economical for me. I sell several hundred starts in the spring as a side hustle so I don't have the space or time to mix lots of different amendments in but I do hit my starts a few times with liquid seaweed and they do great!

zeuspaul
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#42

Post: # 62216Unread post zeuspaul
Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:34 pm

I had a bunch of fungus gnats on my micros. First I tried using my battery powered vacuum. I got about 20 per day but couldn't get ahead of them. Then I purchased some sticky traps. Now with the traps and the vacuum I think I have them under control. For the last few days I have only sucked in one or two with the vacuum. I don't know how many the traps are still getting because they are covered in gnats.

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svalli
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#43

Post: # 62228Unread post svalli
Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:42 pm

Bower wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:20 am I had the dreaded fungus gnats on my house peppers for a couple of years, until finally I watered the seedlings with a mosquito dunk (BT-i) before any gnats had appeared.... I haven't seen one since.
Unfortunately mosquito dunks or any BTi products are not sold here. It would be so easy and safe way to get rid of them, but it is not possible for us. :|
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Setec Astronomy
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#44

Post: # 62235Unread post Setec Astronomy
Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:53 pm

svalli wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:42 pmUnfortunately mosquito dunks or any BTi products are not sold here. It would be so easy and safe way to get rid of them, but it is not possible for us. :|
Ha, I wonder why that is? If it was a chemical treatment I could see that, do you have other biofungals or biological control products that are allowed to be sold there? Or is there just no market for BT products there so they don't bother importing them?

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bower
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#45

Post: # 62237Unread post bower
Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:02 pm

I think the main issue with BT is how you use it. The dunks could be used outdoors in ponds to get rid of mosquitoes. But that would have a bad impact on the environment. Fish depend on the fly larvae, etc. So although it is specific to flies, it will kill anything in that family afaik. When I read the package iirc it specified that you cannot use it outdoors. Restrictions on use vary from one place to another. But I am surprised it is not at all available to gardeners for home uses.
Edited to add: I used them first off with yellow sticky traps on the side, to control the active population. But it was way more effective to just treat the soil with BT before any gnats had emerged. Otherwise you have the ongoing battle, consuming time and other resources.
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#46

Post: # 62238Unread post Setec Astronomy
Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:06 pm

I didn't think of it that way that in Finland they may see it as disturbing the ecosystem.

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pepperhead212
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#47

Post: # 62240Unread post pepperhead212
Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:28 pm

I always use the BTi to wet my starting mix (as well as indoor plants) with a thick liquid, that only needs 6-8 drops in a gallon of water. I always "dechlorinate" the water, by letting it sit for a couple of days, before mixing it. As for that problem with fish, a company that I first got this from stated that there were no problems for the fish for years in ponds, when using the dunks or the liquids, which is what they sold it for, mostly.

@svalli Another thing they sold, for preventing mosquitoes, so they might also work on the fungus gnats, is "barley bales", as well as barley extract. Maybe you can find those there. Maybe just soak a piece of one of the barley bales in, like the dunks, to get and extract in the water. A small piece guards a large pond.
Last edited by pepperhead212 on Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Setec Astronomy
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#48

Post: # 62243Unread post Setec Astronomy
Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:48 pm

pepperhead212 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:28 pmAs for that problem with fish, a company that I first got this from stated that there were no problems for the fish for years in ponds, when using the dunks or the liquids, which is what they sold it for, mostly.
BT isn't harmful to fish, I think Bower was suggesting it would kill the food that the fish eat.

rossomendblot
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#49

Post: # 62245Unread post rossomendblot
Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:23 pm

Technically here in the UK the non-professional grower can't buy Bt products, though they are occasionally available from foreign sellers on online market places.

For fungus gnats I have used a predatory mite called Hypoaspis miles with great success. Two more biological controls, which I haven't yet tried, are another predatory mite called Macrocheles robustulus and the nematode Steinernema feltiae.

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brownrexx
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#50

Post: # 62246Unread post brownrexx
Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:26 pm

Mosquito Dunks are made to be used outdoors. I use then in our small lily pond and the package specifies using them anyplace you have standing water like rain barrels or bird baths to prevent mosquitoes

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pepperhead212
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#51

Post: # 62248Unread post pepperhead212
Thu Feb 03, 2022 5:50 pm

That's another place I use the dunks, @brownrexx - my water barrel.
Woodbury, NJ zone 7a/7b

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Cole_Robbie
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#52

Post: # 62251Unread post Cole_Robbie
Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:41 pm

The dunks are essential in many forms of hydroponics.

Regarding the light warrior seed starting mix, it works great but is expensive. I think it is mostly perlite, with a couple handfuls of vermiculite or peat, and a handful of worm castings. It is much cheaper to make your own.

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Re: What to start seeds in?

#53

Post: # 62261Unread post zeuspaul
Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:43 pm

long fibered sphagnum moss

I was perusing HD and ran across Mosser Lee seed starter. It was less than 4 bucks for 222 cubic inches (1 gallon) with free shipping so I ordered some to give it a try. It comes directly from Mosser Lee. I am sure HD gets a cut as well as the shipper. How are they making any money?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mosser-Lee- ... /204372507

From their website:

Why is long fibered sphagnum moss so valuable?

Mosser Lee’s Long Fibered Sphagnum Moss is the organic answer to many gardening and indoor floral projects. Because of its abilities to both absorb and hold 20 times its weight in water and repel bacteria, long fibered sphagnum moss has been heralded by horticulturists as the best solution to several basic gardening uses and problems. Sphagnum moss is commonly used for the culture of orchids, used to line hanging baskets or as packing material to protect plant roots during shipping. It is routinely used by gardeners for a soil cover to retain moisture in potted plants, air-layering plant propagation, seed starting medium in the milled form, living wreaths and to hold moisture longer in gardens. Long Fibered Sphagnum Moss In its natural wetland habitat, the long fibers play a vital role in regulating ecosystems and provides an important buffer system for other plants, which live alongside and benefit from the water and nutrients that the moss collects.

Sphagnum moss is not peat moss

Long Fibered Sphagnum moss is the live part of the sphagnum moss plant, whereas sphagnum peat moss is a product formed from decomposing sphagnum moss. Sphagnum and sphagnum peat are often confused, each having similar and distinctive characteristics and advantages. Peat is the most common organic material used for the preparation of potting mix because of its homogeneous and favorable agronomic characteristics. However, the organic peat material does not possess long fibered sphagnum moss ability to hold suppress soil borne pathogens, such as damping off.

https://www.mosserlee.com/product/long- ... gnum-moss/

Reviews at Amazon are mixed. It is contaminated with other stuff. However it may be worth a try due to the anti-fungal properties. I may blend it with some granular DE.
Last edited by zeuspaul on Thu Apr 28, 2022 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Shule
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#54

Post: # 62266Unread post Shule
Thu Feb 03, 2022 8:47 pm

I use a mixture of worm castings with some peat moss mixed in. For the tent-like greenhouse I had (which I no longer use), it worked great. It's probably not ideal for my current method, since there are apparently damping off pathogens in it that affect the plants when I bring them indoors every night. After my worm castings run out, I'll probably just buy regular seed-starting mix (a kind without any woodchips whatsoever).

I usually add some wood ash and monoammonium phosphate directly after planting, before the first watering. Phosphates can make plants leggy if they don't get enough light, though, but mine get plenty.

For my seed-starting method, I keep the plants inside at night, and six days a week I put them outside on a table (in full sun with nothing over them) until about 10 PM (or a bit later); then I bring them in the house and put them out when I get up the next day. I keep them out longer than necessary as a buffer against diseases and pests growing (since they don't grow as well outside).

I like to keep them inside the whole time until it's about sprouting time.

What I do is a lot like Tormato's method (Tormato did it first). It saves a lot of hassle and money, as long as you're willing to move them in and out. No greenhouse to take down. No artificial lighting. Free bright light. You don't have to harden off your plants, either.

Anyway, the reason I tell you my method is so you'll know that when they're indoors, damping off can be an issue with my current mix. I've purchased mixes in the past that didn't have issues (before I began starting seeds in a greenhouse); so, I'll probably use something like that in future.

Yes, I use the same mix for all my seeds, usually--that's not necessarily because the same mix is just as ideal, though. I haven't experimented with too many mixes to figure out what's the most ideal for which plants.

Here are some tips:
* Avoid mixes with wood chips. They slow growth and leech nitrogen out of your plants. They can add nutrients in the long run, but you don't have a long run when you're seed-starting (and wood ash has pretty much the same nutrients much more quickly available without the nitrogen-leaching; too much wood ash, is of course bad for the plants, since it's alkaline, but sprinkling a little on top and watering it in works wonders with tomatoes, in my experience; if you want less alkaline wood ash, don't burn it as hot, since hot fires create more oxides which are more alkalizing than carbonates; wood ash from some trees might be a lot different than from other trees).
* Avoid mixing in untrusted composts without testing them first. Some might contain herbicide, salty urine/feces, plants with chemicals that inhibit other plants, etc.
* Avoid peat pellets and those peat containers. They dry out fast, and sometimes mold. Same for toilet paper rolls.
* Even if you have infected soil, damping off can usually be prevented, if you use a 2700k CFL near the plants and add extra potassium (keep the soil line high, too: not super deep). I don't want to use lamps with my current method (and because fluorescent lights make me feel unwell); so, that's why damping off is an issue for me. Cinnamon seems to help with my current method, though; I forgot about that (I need to try it earlier this year).
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greenthumbomaha
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#55

Post: # 62270Unread post greenthumbomaha
Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:21 pm

zeuspaul wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:43 pm long fibered sphagnum moss

I was perusing HD an ran across Mosser Lee seed starter. It was less than 4 bucks for 222 cubic inches (1 gallon) with free shipping so I ordered some to give it a try. It comes directly from Mosser Lee. I am sure HD gets a cut as well as the shipper. How are they making any money?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Mosser-Lee- ... /204372507

From their website:

Why is long fibered sphagnum moss so valuable?

Mosser Lee’s Long Fibered Sphagnum Moss is the organic answer to many gardening and indoor floral projects. Because of its abilities to both absorb and hold 20 times its weight in water and repel bacteria, long fibered sphagnum moss has been heralded by horticulturists as the best solution to several basic gardening uses and problems. Sphagnum moss is commonly used for the culture of orchids, used to line hanging baskets or as packing material to protect plant roots during shipping. It is routinely used by gardeners for a soil cover to retain moisture in potted plants, air-layering plant propagation, seed starting medium in the milled form, living wreaths and to hold moisture longer in gardens. Long Fibered Sphagnum Moss In its natural wetland habitat, the long fibers play a vital role in regulating ecosystems and provides an important buffer system for other plants, which live alongside and benefit from the water and nutrients that the moss collects.

Sphagnum moss is not peat moss

Long Fibered Sphagnum moss is the live part of the sphagnum moss plant, whereas sphagnum peat moss is a product formed from decomposing sphagnum moss. Sphagnum and sphagnum peat are often confused, each having similar and distinctive characteristics and advantages. Peat is the most common organic material used for the preparation of potting mix because of its homogeneous and favorable agronomic characteristics. However, the organic peat material does not possess long fibered sphagnum moss ability to hold suppress soil borne pathogens, such as damping off.

https://www.mosserlee.com/product/long- ... gnum-moss/

Reviews at Amazon are mixed. It is contaminated with other stuff. However it may be worth a try due to the anti-fungal properties. I may blend it with some granular DE.

greenthumbomaha
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#56

Post: # 62272Unread post greenthumbomaha
Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:34 pm

Good info on the peats!

How do you blend DE in with the soil and keep it "sharp" . I must be misunderstanding how this works. I thought it must be kept dry so the mites will crawl on top and cut themselves on the sharp edges.

I'm going through a long process boiling last year's Miracle Grow as I had fungus gnats stay for a long visit, even with I had yellow sticky paper all over the room. Then it was spider mites ruining everything. For boiling I saw a technique by a long time youtuber, Gary P. : Poke holes in one pan and use another as a saucer. Fill the pan with soil and saturate with boiling water. Cover the pan with foil and let it sit for a few hours, then pour water out of the bottom pan , uncover and let it dry for several days. I placed potholders under the pans to protect the table. So far so good, but I'm only using it for the potting up soil. I'm opening the seed start bags outside but if they are contaminated with gnat eggs I should know pretty soon.

- Lisa

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Re: What to start seeds in?

#57

Post: # 62276Unread post zeuspaul
Fri Feb 04, 2022 2:18 am

I don't try to keep DE sharp. I use granular DE which isn't the DE used for insect control. The granular stuff is larger than the insect stuff. I use it as a replacement for perlite for drainage. It holds water better than perlite. I get it as floor dry from Autozone.
https://www.autozone.com/shop-and-garag ... =floor+dry

When I sterilize I have used the oven at 170 degrees F which is my lowest setting. I have read that 135 degrees F is good if you want to keep beneficial microbes. I just place moist soil in a covered pot.

The last time I sterilized I used a crock pot set to warm. I measured the temp after a couple of hours and it was a little over 180 degrees F. I tested my other crock pot which doesn't have a warm setting, only low and high and the temp was about 200 degrees F. Most recommendations I see are for 180 degrees F so I try for that. Maybe the microbes would be beneficial but achieving 180 is easier. The crock pot is easy. I place moist soil and turn it on for a couple of hours.

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Yak54
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#58

Post: # 62355Unread post Yak54
Fri Feb 04, 2022 3:14 pm

My favorite is Magik-Moss seed starting mix. Works the best out of the 3 or 4 brands I've tried over the years. When I transplant to pots I use Promix BX cause that is what they will live in when they get to their grow bags.
Dan

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MissS
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Re: What to start seeds in?

#59

Post: # 62390Unread post MissS
Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:46 pm

I have used the Mosser Lee 'No Damp Off' and I had very good results with it. I truly did not loose a single seedling to damping off. I have used DE granular mixed with worm castings with good results. Pro Mix has changed over the years. Sometimes it's great and others a waste but I always add more perlite to it. Jiffy Mix works well for me too .I just don't seem to have one tried and true product but I did have bad luck with MG so I stay away from that.
~ Patti ~

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Re: What to start seeds in?

#60

Post: # 62436Unread post bboomer
Sat Feb 05, 2022 2:05 pm

I've used Miracle Gro with good results. I've never had a problem with damping off. Maybe I was just lucky. Giant bags of the stuff regularly go on sale at the local hardware store. They store their supply outside so it freezes hard as a rock and, based on the comments above, kills gnats and other bugs. The only time I've been burned is when I bought the generic "Potting Soil."
Has anyone had problems with MG?

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