Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 8:12 pm
Many seed packets that I received from generous members are labeled bagged or alternatively, unbagged. I am looking for an explanation of each. Thanks
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Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
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Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:17 pm
The bagged blossoms have a bag (or other way to enclose them) put over them before opening, so there is no chance of them crossing with plants around them. The others are just from fruits harvested as is, and could be crossed - less likely with tomatoes, but more likely with peppers.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2022 9:22 pm
When grown in a mixed block, as in more than one variety next to each other, tomatoes can cross pollinate each other, leading to seed which does not come true to type or hybrid varieties. In order to prevent this, one should ideally bag the flowers before they open using organza wedding bags or similar, particularly important if you are looking to recover a variety and have the seed available for sale or trade.
Bagging does take time and effort and is not always done commercially.
If you live in an area where you grow overwinter, thinking the likes of Florida, where plants are grown when pollinators are not active, you don't have to bag to maintain strain purity
Bagging does take time and effort and is not always done commercially.
If you live in an area where you grow overwinter, thinking the likes of Florida, where plants are grown when pollinators are not active, you don't have to bag to maintain strain purity
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 6:25 am
Is that true? I mean there are not pollinators out here because it's 25°F. I presume down in Florida if it's warm enough to grow tomatoes right now, it's also warm enough for the bees to be out, but I never really thought about it before.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 10:14 am
I can't believe every pollinator bug is inactive in some state where it's warm enough to grow tomatoes. Why would bees hibernate in 70F weather? If you're growing indoors without pollinators, I'd say chances of a cross are much less, but if there's any sort of breeze pollen could be carried from one plant to another. Bagging gives one the best chance of having uncrossed seed. Growing in isolation works too: if you only grow one variety of tomato, although there an enterprising bee could go from your neighbor's yard to your plants & cross pollinate them anyway.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 11:22 am
Another thing about pollinators in Florida, in relation to tomatoes, I know one lady who does not (i.e. can't!) grow tomatoes in the hottest part of the summer, and this is in the northern part. When she grows the first crop, it is definitely cool enough for bees, and other pollinators, and she almost always bags the blossoms, to save seeds.
It's not as hot here (usually!) As FL, but the bees are still out here in the hottest parts of summer, when we get those 90+ heat waves (too often, in recent years). Bumblebees especially, seem to like those tomatoes!
It's not as hot here (usually!) As FL, but the bees are still out here in the hottest parts of summer, when we get those 90+ heat waves (too often, in recent years). Bumblebees especially, seem to like those tomatoes!
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:19 pm
For outdoor plants, I always pick first or last fruit for seeds, because those are the ones that get the least pollinator attention.
Bumblebee queens in early spring won't even touch the tomatoes because they don't have any nectar and she needs both.
But once the first brood of workers hatch and are out, I don't think they miss a single blossom. They get to them the day they open, and they don't touch the ones they already visited either. Stuffing up on the pollen for brood number two.
Bumblebee queens in early spring won't even touch the tomatoes because they don't have any nectar and she needs both.
But once the first brood of workers hatch and are out, I don't think they miss a single blossom. They get to them the day they open, and they don't touch the ones they already visited either. Stuffing up on the pollen for brood number two.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:41 pm
I try to get the 1st fruit for seeds.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:07 pm
The bee numbers are down in the spring and so cross pollination is least likely to occur then. The worker bees that collect nectar and pollen perish come fall and the frosty temperatures. They do not return to the hive and live over the winter. The bees that remain in the hive are those whose job it is to tend to the queen and her larvae. They feed off of the honey and pollen collected during the summer. The queen bee ceases to lay eggs during the winter. Once temperatures warm into the 70's the queen will start to lay ova again. Most of these ova will then become worker bees which will then begin to go out and harvest food again. Until this new batch of larvae hatch, there will be very few bees pollinating plants. Given knowledge of this life cycle you can see why the first fruits of spring are the least likely to be cross pollinated but of course it can still happen.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 4:06 pm
Very informative post ! And it makes perfect sense. A smart one you are Patti !!!MissS wrote: ↑Sun Feb 27, 2022 3:07 pm The bee numbers are down in the spring and so cross pollination is least likely to occur then. The worker bees that collect nectar and pollen perish come fall and the frosty temperatures. They do not return to the hive and live over the winter. The bees that remain in the hive are those whose job it is to tend to the queen and her larvae. They feed off of the honey and pollen collected during the summer. The queen bee ceases to lay eggs during the winter. Once temperatures warm into the 70's the queen will start to lay ova again. Most of these ova will then become worker bees which will then begin to go out and harvest food again. Until this new batch of larvae hatch, there will be very few bees pollinating plants. Given knowledge of this life cycle you can see why the first fruits of spring are the least likely to be cross pollinated but of course it can still happen.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Sun Feb 27, 2022 7:58 pm
I often use the first fruits of some vegetables, when there are no other varieties flowering yet. Okra is one I do this with - Little Lucy would always be the first to flower, so I'd leave the first ones to grow. Usually, however, tomatoes and peppers have a bunch that start flowering at the same time, so I always bag those blossoms.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:09 am
When I had hives of honeybees, they would come out for "cleansing flights" and also to collect some early nectar and pollen when the temperatures were above 45°. They will start actively foraging after the temperature gets to about 55°.
I have seen honeybees foraging on sunny days here and it is only February.
I have seen honeybees foraging on sunny days here and it is only February.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Mon Feb 28, 2022 4:14 pm
The dandelions are up and today I spied a few honeybees working them in the garden. It's always good to see them!
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 11:44 am
Yes you are correct. There will be some flying and pollinating in the cool weather. However I was trying to explain why there were fewer bees pollinating in the spring than the fall. Surely you will agree that the number of bees in a hive are far far fewer coming out of the winter than there are in September after the queen has been laying ova all summer.brownrexx wrote: ↑Mon Feb 28, 2022 9:09 am When I had hives of honeybees, they would come out for "cleansing flights" and also to collect some early nectar and pollen when the temperatures were above 45°. They will start actively foraging after the temperature gets to about 55°.
I have seen honeybees foraging on sunny days here and it is only February.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:52 pm
Absolutely there are less bees in late winter/early spring but they do seem anxious to get out after being cooped up in winter.
The numbers in the hive do not just keep getting bigger and bigger all summer though. When their numbers reach a certain level (determined by the bees) they will raise a new queen to leave behind and they will take the old queen as well as a big swarm of bees and leave for a new home. We used to start a new hive when the old one swarmed but we quit doing that after a while and called another beekeeper and he would come and collect the swarm.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:20 am
I have been saving seeds for years and to my knowledge have never had a cross. I don't bag the blossoms. Plants are not in isolation. I randomly pick a fully ripe tomato usually not early in the season. It is certainly possible that I have had a cross. I generally grow tomatoes with unique characteristics so I would likely know if I had a cross. If I share seeds I always indicate unbagged.
I have seeds from a volunteer and I don't know what it is. I kept the seeds because I liked the tomato. It may well be a named variety or a cross. I call it Medium Red Volunteer. I will be growing it again this year and I am curious to see what it looks like.
I have seeds from a volunteer and I don't know what it is. I kept the seeds because I liked the tomato. It may well be a named variety or a cross. I call it Medium Red Volunteer. I will be growing it again this year and I am curious to see what it looks like.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 12:24 am
Tomatoes are self-fertile, meaning that each blossom is able to pollinate itself. The pollen falls from the stamen onto the stigma and then the blossom is fertilized. A tomato blossom needs many grains of pollen to completely fertilize each ova. Most often plants are fertilized as soon as the pollen forms and falls onto the stigma. Sometimes weather conditions are such that the pollen clumps and can not fall. This is when the bees have the opportunity to initiate pollination. It is also possible for one tomato to be pollinated by more than one pollen donor. If a bee knocks pollen down on the stigma and brings pollen from another variety or two, then it is possible that different seeds in one fruit will have different male pollen donors.zeuspaul wrote: ↑Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:20 am I have been saving seeds for years and to my knowledge have never had a cross. I don't bag the blossoms. Plants are not in isolation. I randomly pick a fully ripe tomato usually not early in the season. It is certainly possible that I have had a cross. I generally grow tomatoes with unique characteristics so I would likely know if I had a cross. If I share seeds I always indicate unbagged.
I have seeds from a volunteer and I don't know what it is. I kept the seeds because I liked the tomato. It may well be a named variety or a cross. I call it Medium Red Volunteer. I will be growing it again this year and I am curious to see what it looks like.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:07 am
The good news is that although honeybees sometimes do land on tomato flowers, they do not seem to be a preferred flower for them.
I do not have any official data for this, just my own observations from having as many as 4 hives of honeybees. They do LOVE the tiny flowers of asparagus and my plants were always covered with honeybees but I rarely saw them on tomato flowers.
I did see them at the tomato flowers sometimes so you can't count on them not going there.
I do not have any official data for this, just my own observations from having as many as 4 hives of honeybees. They do LOVE the tiny flowers of asparagus and my plants were always covered with honeybees but I rarely saw them on tomato flowers.
I did see them at the tomato flowers sometimes so you can't count on them not going there.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:21 am
I also do not see honeybees on tomatoes as much as bumblebees. Much more on some of my herbs, though both of them love those.
Re: Bagged Seed vs. Unbagged Seed
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:00 pm
Herb flowers are a bee favorite in my garden too.