How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

mama_lor
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#21

Post: # 71263Unread post mama_lor
Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:02 am

Bulbils should not have scapes, no.

Meganp
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#22

Post: # 72266Unread post Meganp
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:00 pm

@JRinPA the size of your bulbils look like they could be from a rocambole variety so to get a fully cloved bulb is not unusual and could very well send up a scape in ideal growing conditions. My preference is to harvest rounds as the subsequent bulbs the following season are much larger.
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I have some bulbils from last season that I forgot about, will plant them to see if anything comes of them
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steve ok
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#23

Post: # 72282Unread post steve ok
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:44 pm

mama_lor wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:02 am Bulbils should not have scapes, no.
I planted 12 bulbils on November 13, 2021. They were about 8mm each in size and were purple in color. I do not know what variety of garlic they were. They each are producing scapes. The bulbil plants are the ones closest to the 2X2.
Bulbil Scape 1.jpg
Bulbil Scape 2.jpg
Bulbil Scape 3.jpg
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#24

Post: # 72285Unread post bower
Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:16 pm

Those are probably rocamboles too then. :)
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#25

Post: # 72294Unread post JRinPA
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:30 pm

MeganP hey long time, glad to see you post here. How you been?

Off my main patch I broke some scapes tonight. I should have broken them off last week. They are well into developing bulbils. I think tomorrow I will break off the rest of that row and another row so I can directly compare, 50% broken off a bit late and 50% left on. It has been really dry until the rain yesterday, almost 1.5". I have not watered them much.

The March planted bulbils and transplants in the raised bed are getting a little morning water via drip tape. Most of the transplants have bulbils, I should take a pic I guess.

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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#26

Post: # 72379Unread post JRinPA
Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:41 pm

My long storage march planted bulbils are indeed throwing scapes.
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Some of the transplanted garlic is falling down, not sure why. Or if it all garlic. There was some onion grass mixed in but I thought I sorted them out months ago. I'll have to dig them up and see what is going on there.
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#27

Post: # 72451Unread post Meganp
Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:34 pm

@jrinpa been really quiet on the garlic front for a couple of seasons due to rust devastating my crops but getting back into the swing this season. Have not been logging into the forums, just checking for updates on the true seed threads which haven't been very active for a while. Only just found your pm on tomatoville - that's how long it's been since I logged into that forum!

I am really impressed how long that your bulbils remained viable, I always understood that rocamboles have a shorter storage life than other varietal groups - definitely a strain that you want to keep going.

Will be really interested to see how big the bulbs are when you eventually harvest them.

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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#28

Post: # 72457Unread post bower
Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:55 pm

I'm really glad to see you here too, Meganp. Still miss some of the old garlic group from tv.
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#29

Post: # 72462Unread post JRinPA
Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:55 pm

I dug down with my fingers, around one of the fallen over transplants. I could feel a good sized bulb, pushing 2". It put on a lot of size since March transplant.

Still, I believe that the 30' bed they are in is just too high for garlic at ~10-12" depth above the soil. They would have done nothing there without drip tape. It has been dry here. It was the only place open though, to try out these bulbils and transplants. It seems like most years I do something a little different with that spot, I guess it is the experimental spot for me, easy to see from the kitchen window.

I'm looking forward to growing out some bulbils from this year's regular crop.
Question: Say I harvest the broken off scape garlic in two weeks. About how much longer do I leave in the garlic with intact scapes? I want good bulbils for replanting. I'm trying to remember if I have left them in longer in the past, or just gone by the 5 green leaves.
Next question, should the bulbils go right back in the ground at a good spot asap or wait until Nov? I think I will try both ways, to compare results in July 2023.

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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#30

Post: # 74361Unread post JRinPA
Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:00 am

The transplanted garlic from the long term house shade bed did very little. Only a few "survived" until July 19th dig out. The rest fell over/gave up for the season. These were some rounds and some small divided clove bulbs. But many of them went unrecovered, as the entire top died back and is gone. I only recovered the ones with intact tops and a few that turned up with digging. These transplants had a relatively poor root system when compared to the bulbils.
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The bulbils, though, they did well. They had a lot of healthy green yet, and I could have let many size up more, but I wanted them out of there. I had 4 rows plus a crooked half row along the bed edge. A few weeks back I broke off most of the scapes they grew. Those were nice dainty scapes for eating.
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Tonight I cleaned them up a bit. As noted above by @Meganp, every bulbil that threw a scape turned out to have a divided bulb. I only found five that had no scape started, only leaves, and they are indeed rounds. It would be nice to grow all big rounds without divided bulbs, but it sounds like this garlic won't work that way.
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These guys in the cheap seats weren't impressed with my March planted bulbil haul. They wouldn't even acknowledge it. They just stared, even after I asked them to stop. Good for nothing lookie lous.
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"Whatever. It was for science. I wasn't even trying for big ones. It was just to find out what 20-month-old bulbils would do." After gathering my garlic to me and wiping my tears, inspiration! I went back to the raised beds to get something I noticed when I dug the garlic - a 4-1/2" volunteer red beet!
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I plopped that down and that shut them up right quick! It truly changed the tone of their silence. Respect!
(Probably the only thing that beet is good for.)
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#31

Post: # 74377Unread post bower
Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:35 am

Great results @JRinPA :) All that garlic and a beet to boot!
Very impressive keeping quality on those bulbils.
You know, there might be a way of treating them that encourages more rounds. IDK what it is, but some have cited weather conditions as the cause of unexpected rounds from planted cloves. Just a thought... (Yes I love reading about your experiments ;) More please....)
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#32

Post: # 75263Unread post Meganp
Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:12 pm

Great looking harvest from bulbils @JRinPA

I have planted some PS & Mps bulbils from the previous year so will be interesting to see how many are still viable.

I had kept them to feed the chickens😉

Here’s a you tube video by Andy Leahy about growing garlic rounds, he has also written up a doc with several years data, planting dates, weights etc in his search for optimal growing/planting methods to produce large rounds.


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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#33

Post: # 75282Unread post JRinPA
Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:06 am

I'll have to watch that for sure, thanks.

I did find some more of the rounds (mostly from the transplant side) that surfaced with the recent rains. That and I watered heavily before planting brussels sprouts there. I probably collected about 10 more rounds @1" or less. I expect volunteers as well though it is now covered in plastic mulch.

It occurred to me that the garlic round tops act more like onions than like garlic bulb tops. Now, I am a newbie to onions and just had my first crop of onions "fall over" this past few weeks. That is when I put it together. Falling over is exactly what the garlic rounds do - they die back and fall over since they don't have a center scape shot up. Also, when I looked at the garlic gone wild patch where I dug the transplants (2016 planting let go) on the shady side of the house, they had mostly fallen over at that same time. Most of those greens are from small bulbils, it is very densely planted, and most fell over and withered away early. The exception being those with scapes, and hence bulbs formed. So there are many hundreds of rounds over there. Just not very big...

I do love learning stuff like this.

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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#34

Post: # 75303Unread post bower
Wed Aug 03, 2022 7:14 am

That's a great video - I had forgotten about spring planting as a way to get rounds instead of bulbs.
Some great tips about how late to plant as well.
This could really come in handy, since my bulb size is down across the board after a second hot summer (and even hotter) in a row.
I'm going to set some bulbs aside for rounds making experiments.
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#35

Post: # 75365Unread post JRinPA
Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:38 am

Cool video...sort of deflating though, as the mystery is gone. Hah.

So 3:45, July harvest of rounds. I could do that now in the shady patch. I'm not sure what size they would be but there are a lot of rounds there, for sure. I could dig them up, clean them up, and "dry and cure" for a later size sort and plant out schedule. I should replace some bulbils in there or something though as I want to keep that area as a sort of natural reserve area.

And I can surely do the 1:53 Late Oct Bulbil Sow, though I think it would be mid Nov for here. I did not set the cut scapes in water but left on half the main crop scapes and they are plenty big. Since mine seems to be a rocambole it would probably form bulbs and send a scape.

I also think I could still maybe do direct bulbil to round to main. Harvest big bulbils in July. Skip the fall planting and store them until May for plant and harvest possible big rounds in July. Then plant those rounds for main in Nov/Dec. That would be a two year/one dig circle instead of three years/two digs.

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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#36

Post: # 75369Unread post bower
Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:06 am

With regards putting scapes in water, heads up your bulbils may sprout on the head. The only thing to do then is plant immediately, they can't be dried down. YMMV depending on the RH in your environment. We are on the humid end here, and alliums do suck up moisture from the environment with all parts.
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#37

Post: # 79951Unread post Meganp
Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:21 am

steve ok wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:44 pm
mama_lor wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:02 am Bulbils should not have scapes, no.
I planted 12 bulbils on November 13, 2021. They were about 8mm each in size and were purple in color. I do not know what variety of garlic they were. They each are producing scapes. The bulbil plants are the ones closest to the 2X2.Bulbil Scape 1.jpgBulbil Scape 2.jpgBulbil Scape 3.jpg
The very long beak and large bulbils is indicative of an Asiatic garlic.

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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#38

Post: # 96838Unread post JRinPA
Thu May 04, 2023 1:49 pm

JRinPA wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 4:00 am The transplanted garlic from the long term house shade bed did very little. Only a few "survived" until July 19th dig out. The rest fell over/gave up for the season. These were some rounds and some small divided clove bulbs. But many of them went unrecovered, as the entire top died back and is gone. I only recovered the ones with intact tops and a few that turned up with digging. These transplants had a relatively poor root system when compared to the bulbils.

The "March dug and transplanted" garlic that fell over and withered before mid July last year is looking good. Some of the rounds were recovered when I planted brussels sprouts. But most were not. The following pic was recent and looks like it will be some good garlic, regularly timed. Surely there were more lost rounds than showing, but covered by the woven black mulch.
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Unfortunately they are in the way of the sweet peppers and they may well have to go...

I learned a bit doing this last year. I have last year's bulbils to plant out now. I wanted to try every two weeks since Apr 1, to get a good idea of perfect timing for forming bulbil to rounds, but I haven't got to it. I just couldn't decide where. I made some changes and will plant them in RGGS pots in full sun. I just don't like tying up the end of a row like I did there last year.
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#39

Post: # 101373Unread post JRinPA
Sat Jul 08, 2023 9:06 pm

I pulled those few garlic above (rounds last year that fell over and sprouted again in spring). Most were down to 4 or less good leaves.

Some were pretty nice, some were small, and the largest Bulbil size came from the 5th largest bulb.
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Re: How Long Do Garlic Bulbils Remain Viable?

#40

Post: # 104308Unread post bower
Sun Aug 13, 2023 3:03 pm

2023-germidour-lautrec-rounds-861.JPG
Just thought I would mention, I tried spring planting some Germidour to get big rounds from my small cloves. Spaced pretty tightly about 4 inches apart in a patch. Planted fairly late, as advised in the video.
Today I pulled the results: nearly all rounds with some nice big ones. One of these has a small clove on the side but otherwise looks round. So spring planting is the way to get rounds for planting alright.
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