Soilless Mix and Bacterial Wilt

[Wildcat82]

Last Monday morning I was going plant my 8 summer cherries, but they had completely wilted and died literally overnight. Looks like bacterial wilt. The seeds had been started in peat pellets then transplanted into cups filled with Fox Farms Potting soil. Fox Farms potting soil contains a "blend of aged forest products, sphagnum peat moss, earthworm castings, bat guano, fish emulsion, and crab meal."


I thought the Fox Farms potting mix was a soilless mix so I wouldn't have to worry much about bacterial wilt. However, the owner of a nursery emphatically told me it absolutely WAS NOT soilless. Which way is it? And if I used something like the Al Tapla container mix (5 parts pine bark fines, 1 part peat moss and 1 part perlite) shouldn't a 100% soilless mix prevent bacterial wilt?

[MissS]

The forest products and the earthworm castings in your Fox Farm potting mix can easily contain some soil. I think that it is possible for any mix to contain bacteria, however a peat/perlite product seems to be the safest. I am more concerned that it may in fact be the seed that you are using may be infected with a pathogen. Were these all the same varieties and from the same source?

[Wildcat82]

I had 8 different varieties of seed from Victory Seeds so I doubt that was the problem. Some soil must be mixed in the potting soil somehow. I'm thinking the earthworm casting or any kind of composted manure may be problematic. If I was back on our farm and wanted composted cow manure, I'd scoop up manure from the corals and toss it into a composter. But it's not possible to do this without scooping some of the dirt with the cow manure. I think it may be safer to make my own soil using only peat, perlite and pine fines and synthetic fertilizer (no compost or manure).

[Cole_Robbie]

Fwiw, bacterial wilt can occur in any media. It happens in hydroponics, in rockwool, cocopeat, and even clay pebbles. Pythium will take down any plant in any media when it takes over.

[mama_lor]

My guess is that it was rather something else and not bacterial wilt. The chances of bacterial wilt even in non soilless mix is just very very low. Nowadays pure peat mixes are rather rare to find. Forest byproducts are by definition not soil, so it's not illegal to call them soilless.

[Wildcat82]

My guess is that it was rather something else and not bacterial wilt. The chances of bacterial wilt even in non soilless mix is just very very low. Nowadays pure peat mixes are rather rare to find. Forest byproducts are by definition not soil, so it's not illegal to call them soilless.

It sure looked like bacterial wilt. Five of plants were completely dead and the other 3 looked great except for one or two branches that hung totally limp. Those died in the next couple days. I didn't do the test where you put the stems in water and look for a milky strands coming out. I don't know what else affects tomatoes that fast.

[Rockoe10]

This year is bad for this in my area. All my sprouts succumbed to this. And my sister in law's did as well.

I've seen several videos online with people having an abundance of damping off. Very likely with this year's spring weather.

[peebee]

So are you sure it wasn't the dreaded Damping Off, as Rockoe mentioned above? Because then it wouldn't be the medium. It can happen suddenly, overnight. It has happened to us all here probably, at least once during many years of growing from seed. It's devastating the first time especially.

[Wildcat82]

This year is bad for this in my area. All my sprouts succumbed to this. And my sister in law's did as well.

I've seen several videos online with people having an abundance of damping off. Very likely with this year's spring weather.

I had the same problem despite spraying every day with a dilute hydrogen peroxide solution that is supposed to prevent this. I went back to growing seeds in peat pellets and that seemed to resolve that issue. IMHO the compressed peat pellets are less likely to harbor fungus than any potting mix.

Lots of strange maladies have killed plants for me this year. In addition to the bacterial wilt, I had 3 tomatoes die that have symptoms that exactly matched Glyphosate Injury (bright yellow tiny leaves on top of the plant) even though I grew the seedling in potting soil and haven't even sprayed any Roundup this year.

One lesson I've learned is to plant a new batch of seeds every month until I get plants big enough that I can start cloning. That way I've always got replacements ready to go in case early blight, bacterial wilt, mites, hailstorm, etc., strike.

[peebee]

You could also try the granular stuff used to absorb car oil on driveways to start tomato seedlings. I use Ultrasorb but that's just a brand name. Any fine grained one is fine. I also use it to propagate plants from cuttings. I learned about this from TVille years ago, forget the member's name but I am eternally grateful for his post.
You have to put something on the bottom of the pot to prevent the stuff from spilling out, like a piece of paper towel or coffee filter, and water from the bottom only. I've never had damping off since using this. A bag lasts years.

[Cole_Robbie]

Damping off is pythium, which is one of the types of bacterial wilt. So I think we are talking about the same thing.

[Wildcat82]

You could also try the granular stuff used to absorb car oil on driveways to start tomato seedlings. I use Ultrasorb but that's just a brand name. Any fine grained one is fine. I also use it to propagate plants from cuttings. I learned about this from TVille years ago, forget the member's name but I am eternally grateful for his post.
You have to put something on the bottom of the pot to prevent the stuff from spilling out, like a piece of paper towel or coffee filter, and water from the bottom only. I've never had damping off since using this. A bag lasts years.

I think I'll give this a try. Thanks!

[zeuspaul]

I think I'll give this a try. Thanks!

I buy EP Minerals Floor Dry (UltraSorb)( granular diatomaceous earth--DE) from Autozone. I use it in my potting mixes instead of perlite.

[MissS]

You could also try the granular stuff used to absorb car oil on driveways to start tomato seedlings. I use Ultrasorb but that's just a brand name. Any fine grained one is fine. I also use it to propagate plants from cuttings. I learned about this from TVille years ago, forget the member's name but I am eternally grateful for his post.
You have to put something on the bottom of the pot to prevent the stuff from spilling out, like a piece of paper towel or coffee filter, and water from the bottom only. I've never had damping off since using this. A bag lasts years.

The T'ville member that you are referring to is RayR. I use DE and worm castings quite often as my seed starting medium. I have also found that since I have used MycoGro that I have not had damping off problems ever again. The mycos seem to compete with the Pythium and suppress it. Here is a link to using RayR's DE http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=22329

[peebee]

Thanks @MissS for posting that here! Yes RayR deserves the credit for this. I haven't bought seed starting mix in years.

[Wildcat82]

You could also try the granular stuff used to absorb car oil on driveways to start tomato seedlings. I use Ultrasorb but that's just a brand name. Any fine grained one is fine. I also use it to propagate plants from cuttings. I learned about this from TVille years ago, forget the member's name but I am eternally grateful for his post.
You have to put something on the bottom of the pot to prevent the stuff from spilling out, like a piece of paper towel or coffee filter, and water from the bottom only. I've never had damping off since using this. A bag lasts years.

The T'ville member that you are referring to is RayR. I use DE and worm castings quite often as my seed starting medium. I have also found that since I have used MycoGro that I have not had damping off problems ever again. The mycos seem to compete with the Pythium and suppress it. Here is a link to using RayR's DE http://tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=22329

Thanks for posting this link