Costoluto Genovese - love/hate?

[JRinPA]

What do you think about Costoluto Genovese?

This is my fourth year growing them - at least the fourth. I grew them a few years, gave up on them, tried a few again last year with some promise, and decided to expand their share this year to twenty plants. I still don't know if I love them or hate them.

They are very nice looking.
They are very red.
They are dry-ish for sauce.

The problem is, for me, they just disintegrate on the vine. Other than OR117, I've never seen such a collapse-y tomato.

This year I trenched three plants around the perimeter of each cage, and trained a leader up each vertical all the way to the top. So three or four stems per plant. That worked well. Recently I had seen that it looked like a few from the first trusses were getting soft. It was "Use it or lose it" time. I went to pick them and collected a full 10x20 tray from each CRW cage; mostly first trusses. The problem is, probably another full 10x20 tray from each cage ended up on the ground. Not just the handful that looked soft... Many just collapsed at a slight touch and dropped. Or mushed in hand and I had to massage them off to fall on the ground. The garden rows stink of rotten tomatoes. Some of these were tomatoes set 4 to 5 ft up the cage. Splat. Those high ones could not have been ripe for long. I can't recall ever getting my shirt sleeves dirty when picking before. I came out of the garden looking like I was headed to the box for 5 minutes (old-time hockey?).

This rotting on the vine happens each year I've grown them. Both in shade and frontage with sun. They seem to set well for at least a few trusses. Five to seven per truss is not uncommon. Some start to look ripe. Then some more look ripe, but not enough. If it was a cuostralee or other slicer, I would be picking them singly for sandwiches. But these are for sauce, so they stay in place. When there are finally enough tomatoes to batch process, the first ones are falling apart already. They just don't hold on the vine long enough for a big batch of sauce. I think it is the shape - anything with big lobes on it, be it tomato or pepper, does not do well in the humidity here. Every crevice can shelter mold. It has been very dry, rain wise, but humid as always. These did get water most mornings. But I have round tomatoes getting the exact same treatment in the same rows and there are very few that have gone bad. <5% versus ~50%. And the CG seem to do this every year I've grown them.

I really want to like this tomato, but I want to do sauce when I have time, not be forced into smaller batches and more work by a tomato that won't stay fresh and firm. And these things reek when they go bad on the vine. They don't all look bad when they rot - in fact most of them looked fine. I'm not in the habit of feeling a tomato until I am picking it.

Even the trays that made it into the house totaled approximately 20% waste. Any rot seems to ruin the whole tomato. I have to figure about 50% waste so far when totaling everything that turned red.

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This tray happened to have two sets of fused double-decker CG. They grow opposed like that with the fused blossoms.

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The larger of the double-decker CGs was 15 oz. Really cool looking.

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If I had a different setup for making sauce, it might be a different story. Excess freezer space - I've read of that being a way to build up to a batch. For me a batch is 7-8 quarts canned which requires milled tomatoes in 3 pots on the stove - a 12 qt, an 8.5 qt, and an 8 qt, each filled to within an inch before starting to cook down. I don't have that extra freezer space to stockpile tomatoes, or any inclination to try to make some. I want to pull those tomatoes off the vine and queue in trays for no more than a day or two on the carport before milling.

There has to be a fan base for this tomato, and I'd like to be part of it, but at this point I can't say that I am. What is the trick to loving these tomatoes?
Growing dry with no added water?
Picking and shelving as soon as they blush?
Moving to sunny, dry southern california? Or Mexico? Or Italy?

[Whwoz]

@JRinPA , I feel you pain, that rotting is definitely not good.

I have grown BrokenBar's clone the last three years running when our summers have been wetter and more humid than typical. From what I have seen it does seem to prefer a drier, lower humidity environment, having said that, I pick the fruit as they ripen, not leaving the first ones on until the entire cluster is ripe. They do hold well when picked before fully ripe for me, at least a week to 10 days no problems. Not sure how they would go in a humid environment. Is your house air conditioned? A cool room inside may help you build up volume. Is there anywhere you can cold store them, an unused bar fridge?

[GoDawgs]

This was my first year growing these and I've crossed them off the "do again" list. I don't have one of those gizmos to grind up tomatoes for sauce so the pleated shape makes peeling them for processing a pain in the butt. Even the soak in hot water doesn't loosen all of the skin down in the crevices. No spare freezer space either.

Mine don't hold well either and I have the same problem getting enough at once to do anything with. The greenies make pretty slices for fried green tomatoes though.

[worth1]

Wonderful on a salad.

[Labradors]

I grew Brokenbar's strain one year. Even bought a Vittorio strainer especially for them! They had really bad BER for the longest time, but they did grow out of it, and were extremely prolific. (The weather changed over the summer from soaking wet to drought mode!) The sauce was good, but I won't be growing them ever again.

Linda

[Toomanymatoes]

I grew Costoluto Fiorentino. I do not know how different it is, but they look the same to me.

Very productive. Tasted good. However, I lost at least half to BER. Probably one of the worst cases of BER I have seen yet. Of course, next time it may be different. I doubt I would ever grow it again considering all the other options.

For me, pastes and oxhearts are prone to BER. Not all of them, but certain varieties certainly seem very susceptible - this year it is the oxhearts Wes and Pomodoro Cuore Antico di Acqui Terme (I have at least 8 others with no problems). Might be because I grow them in 20G containers as well. My pastes and oxhearts grown in ground have no BER at all this year.

[edweather]

One of the worst for me. Never growing them again.

[DriftlessRoots]

This is good information to know. I've been tempted by the appearance but we have humid summers, too, and I'd rather not give space to something this iffy.

[Danny]

If you have a good strong blender, I have heard that you can leave the skins on. Never tried it in any but the vitamix myslf. I have two vitamix and I quarter the tomatoes and either squeeze for seed saving, or toss in the vitamix skins/seeds and all, quick as a bunny, processed smooth for a quick heat and can session.

[rxkeith]

i have grown costoluto genovese in the past, being half italian myself.
i wasn't wowed by the flavor. it looks nice, and all that, but it doesn't travel well.
the gotch brought one along with him when he stopped by, and when he took it out of
the bag, we discovered the tops of the ridges were all bruised. gotch looked pretty surprised.
i ate that one first.
momma canned many jars over the years of my uncle steve italian. i would use that one over
costoluto genovese any day. better flavor, and only waste is the small core.
i am not kidding.


keith

[slugworth]

Genuwine was a dud this year.
It's a cross between that and brandywine.

[CrazyAboutOrchids]

Genuwine was a dud this year.
It's a cross between that and brandywine.

Same for me the year I tried it. I've done 2 of those Marriage series and both were duds.

I tried CG years ago and it was a do not repeat in my garden - no notes why - if they don't work for me, it's a simple NO! on my garden plan for that year.

[mama_lor]

They do indeed look great. For me they were bland unfortunately. And not because of lack of sugar (it's very non-sweet), it just didn't have any flavor even with salt. Pity.

[worth1]

Very strange.
Mine tasted like blue cheese dressing.

[JRinPA]

Hey there I read some of the first replies yesterday and don't have time to respond right now. But I have picked tomatoes in that garden twice since I posted so I have a better idea of what is going on. I think I see what is happening and I may well be giving CGs another chance - with some changes on my end.

My thoughts were pushed toward WW2 and the heavy losses taken by the guys flying B17s and B24s.

[slugworth]

Genuwine was a dud this year.
It's a cross between that and brandywine.

Same for me the year I tried it. I've done 2 of those Marriage series and both were duds.

I tried CG years ago and it was a do not repeat in my garden - no notes why - if they don't work for me, it's a simple NO! on my garden plan for that year.

altho genuwine is easy to save seeds from,since it is RL
any PL seedlings I fling.

[MissS]

Costoluto Genovese grows fine in my garden. If I plant it out later to avoid being in cold soil then I seem to avoid BER. I have never had these collapse on me so I'm wondering if they weren't left on the vine too long. I harvest mine individually and not the cluster.

While they do not taste very good at all for fresh eating they make very good sauce. A very good friend gave me a Vitamix for my birthday and I will be using that this year to process tomatoes for sauce. I'm looking forward to trying this out. I used to just use my blender for this.

[NarnianGarden]

Only have had Costoluto Fiorentino, and it was fine...

[JRinPA]

I'm glad to hear there are some that have good luck with the ribbed tomato. I want to like it. It really throws some nice clusters. I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from trying it at least once. It was a shock seeing all that damage but I've had some time to analyze the failure. I was late getting to pick, for sure. I figure I lost 6-7qts worth of sauce tomatoes. That's the thing - is this tomato too unforgiving on promptness to be used here for sauce?

Since that first batch that was mainly Costoluto Genovese, I have milled and canned two more batches of pizza sauce. The tomatoes included Big Beef F1 and Estiva F1, three OP slicers (stump, SOO, and cuostralee), some later ripening CGs and a lot of the little, round, easy to mill, thick walled, long lasting on the vine, RL seed in a Stupice trade package - that I dubbed Fauxpice.

Upon picking, I have discovered a huge amount of bird pecks in the Fauxpice. They are in the same overgrown garden, same conditions, as the CG. The Fauxpice mostly survive the pecks and are salvagable for the mill. The seed cavities on the Fauxpice tend to isolate the damage. I hadn't seen many CGs with the bird pecks.

When I noticed the high number of bird pecks on the fauxpice, it reminded me of the bomber losses in WW2. I forget the exact story (The History Channel was my favorite before it went reality tv), but essentially the ground crews, after examining the planes that were barely making it home, were installing extra armor plating to reinforce the areas that were getting shot to pieces. This armor added weight and cost speed and range. At some point a smart guy pointed out the error. It was in fact the places that they don't see being shot up that need protection and redundancies. Bullets and flak should create a random distribution of holes, but the planes returning didn't exhibit that. The places they don't see many bullet holes - those are the places that need protecting...because when the bullets hit there, the plane and crew don't make it home.

The bird pecks are delivered as a random distribution throughout the jungle of cages. Therefore I must assume the birds also peck the CG. If I'm not seeing pecks that I must assume are occurring, it follows that CG must be quick to collapse after such damage. The CG are solidly built (no seed cavity as insulation) and have a small depth to width ratio. That wound is hitting important stuff, not just water and seeds. They can't survive it like a round tomato or even a slicer can.

I also don't think they handle excess water very well. Daily water may not suit them. (I will add I have NEVER given water daily to tomatoes like I did this July and August). The round tomatoes can hold water in the seed cavities and distribute the stresses evenly, due to being spherical. The slicers can split open the weak, flat bottom, allowing water to leak out to relieve pressure, yet still stay fresh for a few days at middle and top due to the height of the tomato. Defense in depth, trade space for time. The CG...once they are formed, with all those ribs, and just a pancake shape, I don't think there is anywhere for extra water to go. There are stress concentrations everywhere. I think it would go pretty quickly to the white yuck.

The good news is, I think I can grow them better than I have been. Give them a better shot. My changes to effect better CG growth in my case would be modify that garden layout. Instead of 4 rows of 5 cages, I will change to 3 rows of 5 cages. That would provide a lot more room to walk in and see the plants before the tomatoes are overripe. But they would still have shade from the cage, and not single layer like on a fence. The 5 extra cages could be cut to make 10 cage extenders. That would give me 7' instead of 5' before the cages go all "play doh barber shop" at the top. Two more feet of tomato stems tied on uprights, and more space to walk and able to walk upright instead of crouching like a hunchback. Because when they overflow after 5', that is face height. The extra space and height will also allow me to continue suckering for another three weeks or more. (most of that jungle is unruly stems since mid July). These 7ft cages would also work great for the pole beans I grow in the garden every other year. I have some extra cages too, at least three more, so I could make extenders for all 15 cages. It is time to retire my bean poles anyway.

This will be the more or less permanent look for that garden patch - 15 tall cages - all thanks to prissy, pretty, CG not being able to survive in the jungle. It should be a change for the better. I'll also install a cutoff in the drip. That old garden is last inline with three other beds, and there are times (like this past week with ripe tomatoes) when I'd rather not water it, while still watering the other beds on that circuit.


Pics of the old garden:
July 17th things were looking good. Space to walk. Tidy stems. Nice clusters on the trusses.

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I have no pics for the next five weeks. That may explain the problem. Even though it was super dry, I had daily morning drip tape going. Please allow me to summarize those five weeks from the kitchen sink window.
week 1 -they look good, no need to go down there! Too hot out!
week 2 - They're fine! So lush looking! Yay for drip tape! Sure is hot out!
week 3 - Look, oh we got some red ones now! They like this heat!
week 4 - Hey, that one out front looks like it is going bad! So hot this year! Good thing they have all that cage shade!
week 5 - Uh oh, half of these are mush!
Aug 25th - picking the third batch. I have chopped my way into the first two walkways now and took the first pickings off cages 1-15, plus cage 16 on the far right, front. But there are still tomatoes (Fauxpice) in that last row that need first picking.

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[JRinPA]

The Costoluto Genovese seem to be holding up better over at the comm garden than in the old backyard garden. There are few bird pecks over there, little water, and the CG are in a spot that gets morning sun and then shade from the rest of the trellis in the afternoon.
Sept 5 - CG with some Big Beef and Estiva

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Before this rain I also picked in the backyard as well. Once again I found about 50% of these ribbed CG rotted out. The ones I found that were rotting but still intact invariably had either a bird peck, a black spot starting in a crease, or a split bottom. It just seems like the whole tomato gets wiped out very quickly after that. No way to salvage anything.