Ketchup

[Seven Bends]

I think the quality of the tomato may be more important than the added spices. I like the consistency and the tomato flavor of the ketchup I made with Muir Glen paste and puree. I am not sure I need the puree because their puree is (paste + water) according to the label.
...
In the top tier and rated #4 and available at Target as a paste at a very reasonable price. No added salt or sugar just tomatoes and citric acid. Target Good & Gather Whole Peeled Tomatoes.
https://www.target.com/p/tomato-paste-1 ... nk=sametab

I've always liked Contadina tomato paste (only the standard, unflavored one, not the ones with Italian flavorings). I think it would be a fine base for do-it-yourself ketchup, if you want to start from paste rather than puree or whole tomatoes.

Did you see the original Heinz Octagon ketchup recipe I posted back towards the beginning of this thread? Seems like it might be a good starting place for you, since it doesn't have any added sugar or salt and was developed as a premium, healthful product. It starts with fresh tomatoes or canned, crushed tomatoes, so if you wanted to start with paste you'd have to do some experimenting.

[zeuspaul]

Did you see the original Heinz Octagon ketchup recipe I posted back towards the beginning of this thread?

I don't know how to set my browser to read only. However I was able to quickly select most if not all of the text and paste it into Notepad before I got the warning. It's a bit long but I will get around to reading it.

Availability is also an issue for me. I do all of my grocery shopping on the Internet. Ralphs, Sprouts, Smart and Final, and Costo with Instacart. Also Target and Walmart directly with free shipping over $35 and no tip required ( I tip 20%). I also do a lot of shopping at Amazon but rarely food items because they are not competitive.

I found Contadina tomato paste at Walmart at a reasonable price but they only had 2 in stock. I will keep it on my list.

Muir Glen tomato paste had the highest rating from this guy I found who reviewed tomato pastes. I couldn't see the remaining pastes he reviewed. He basically said all pastes were about the same but some had a bit of a metallic taste.

How We Tested the Tomato Pastes

We tasted every single option on its own, using just a spoon, and found little to no difference between them. Next, we also tried tasting the pastes on bread and crackers, hoping a starchy vehicle would help some flavors come through. Nope.

Then. I decided to mimic cooking with them to see if nuances would emerge. Tomato pastes are essentially diluted into a dish using heat and liquid, so I used hot water — 1 teaspoon paste to 1 tablespoon hot water. This did help a bit, as we were able to detect which pastes offered a richer tomato flavor once diluted with an equal amount of liquid.


The Best Canned Tomato Paste

Among the cans, the only differences we could detect were some had a very faint metallic note, some were just the barest smidge more tart, and some were slightly darker in color with a slightly more roasted flavor. The differences were so incredibly slight they’d be undetectable in a cooked dish.

The differences were negligible, but if we absolutely had to choose, there was one can that we all decided stood out little from the rest for its sweet, rich tomato flavor. Which one was it? Muir Glen.

https://www.thekitchn.com/tomato-paste-brands-22991890

[zeuspaul]

Unwanted ingredients

Both Contadina and Muir Glen claim on their web site no BPA in their cans.

Tomatoes, apples (apple sauce) and peppers are on my list for ketchup ingredients.

The 2018 Dirty Dozen Food List

According to the EWG, the following conventional fruits and vegetables have the highest levels of pesticide residues:


4) Apples: The EWG detected pesticide residues in 90% of apple samples. What’s more, 80% of the apples tested contained traces of diphenylamine, a pesticide banned in Europe (7).

9)Tomatoes: Four pesticide residues were found on the conventionally grown tomato. One sample contained over 15 different pesticide residues.

12) Sweet bell peppers: Sweet bell peppers contain fewer pesticide residues compared to other fruits and vegetables. Yet, the EWG cautions that pesticides used on sweet bell peppers “tend to be more toxic to human health.”

For those with the ability to purchase organic versions of high-pesticide produce, using this practice will likely result in lower overall exposure to pesticides

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/di ... hat-to-buy

[Seven Bends]

Did you see the original Heinz Octagon ketchup recipe I posted back towards the beginning of this thread?

I don't know how to set my browser to read only. However I was able to quickly select most if not all of the text and paste it into Notepad before I got the warning. It's a bit long but I will get around to reading it.

I found Contadina tomato paste at Walmart at a reasonable price but they only had 2 in stock. I will keep it on my list.

Muir Glen tomato paste had the highest rating from this guy I found who reviewed tomato pastes. I couldn't see the remaining pastes he reviewed. He basically said all pastes were about the same but some had a bit of a metallic taste.

Contadina tomato paste is available at all main grocery chains around here. It's not a premium brand; I think basically it competes with Hunt's and Del Monte. Good quality at a reasonable price. To my taste, it's better than Hunt's, but that may be just personal preference or what I grew up with.

Here's the Heinz Octagon ketchup recipe; note that two ingredients aren't in the list at the top but are in the text instructions below because they are added later. I think I left those two ingredients out when I posted originally, which would make for weird ketchup since there wouldn't be any vinegar, salt or sugar. Clearly, I was wrong in saying there isn't any added salt or sugar in this recipe. I guess you could substitute applesauce for some of the sugar as you mentioned, and reduce the salt. Or ignore this entirely and keep on with your experimenting, because there's probably no advantage to this recipe over the many you've presumably already looked at! I think I'm drawn to it because my family comes from Pittsburgh, so we are Heinz-loyal. Plus, it's kind of like heirloom ketchup, being from 1895.

Keystone Ketchup (Octagon Style)
Based on 1895 hand-written company records in the Heinz History Center library

1/2 gallon (8 cups) of fresh tomatoes, or two 28-oz cans crushed tomatoes
1/2 teaspoon (slightly heaped) of ground cloves
1/2 teaspoon of ground allspice
1/3 (or heaping 1/4) teaspoon of ground cinnamon
3/8 (or scant 1/2) teaspoon of ground mace (or nutmeg)
1/8 teaspoon of ground cayenne pepper
A very small portion of very small clove of garlic, chopped
1/4 teaspoon of finely chopped onion

Boil fast for about 45 minutes, stirring regularly so it doesn't scorch; when it gets close to the desired consistency, add:

1/3 cup vinegar (distilled or malt vinegar preferred)

Continue cooking another 10 or 15 minutes until it achieves desired consistency, then add:

3/8 (or scant 1/2) cup sugar, 1½ Tablespoons of salt and stir well.

Cook another couple of minutes, then remove from fire.

If using canned crushed tomatoes, add 1 cup of water at the beginning.

For a large batch use #10 can of crushed tomatoes, 2 cups of water, and double the recipe proportions.

[worth1]

I'm actually more concerned about the exploitation and exposure to chemicals of the workers in these fields than I am about any residual insecticides or BPA's in the can linings.
Not trying to start anything, but the subject is less mentioned or cared about than the lives of these migrant farm workers.
I've actually worked along side these people doing the same thing as them.
Working long hours from sun up to sun down.
It was nothing for the farm owners to fog everyone in the orchard with insecticides and herbicides.
Contadina is now owned by Del Monte.
Del Monte doesn't have a good track record with its world wide operations and treatment of its workers.

Sometimes I just want to cringe when I see these products in the store and think about the working and living conditions of the human beings that work for them.

Sorry I just had to get that put of my system.

[Seven Bends]

I'm actually more concerned about the exploitation and exposure to chemicals of the workers in these fields than I am about any residual insecticides or BPA's in the can linings.
Not trying to start anything, but the subject is less mentioned or cared about than the lives of these migrant farm workers.
I've actually worked along side these people doing the same thing as them.
Working long hours from sun up to sun down.
It was nothing for the farm owners to fog everyone in the orchard with insecticides and herbicides.
Contadina is now owned by Del Monte.
Del Monte doesn't have a good track record with its world wide operations and treatment of its workers.

Sometimes I just want to cringe when I see these products in the store and think about the working and living conditions of the human beings that work for them.

Sorry I just had to get that put of my system.

You're absolutely right. The book Tomatoland is a good place to start with respect to the miseries (human and environmental) associated with growing tomatoes commercially. But who DOES "have a good track record with its world wide operations and treatment of its workers"? Other than the ultra-premium brands affordable to the rich only, there aren't many options. Even many of the brands claiming to be organic and humane are engaging in more whitewashing and PR than they are in better practices. How 'bout those cage-free eggs in the grocery store?

I'm not criticizing your point; I agree with you. It's just that when I need tomato paste, the choices I can afford are Hunt's, Contadina and the store brand, and I doubt any of them are treating their workers well. When you get right down to it, almost nobody is treating their workers well.

Some days when I think of the misery and destruction associated with everything I eat, wear and use, I just want to cry. And then we ship off our waste for supposed recycling, and poor people worldwide crawl all over mountains of our debris, giving themselves cancer just to try to survive another day.

[worth1]

I'm actually more concerned about the exploitation and exposure to chemicals of the workers in these fields than I am about any residual insecticides or BPA's in the can linings.
Not trying to start anything, but the subject is less mentioned or cared about than the lives of these migrant farm workers.
I've actually worked along side these people doing the same thing as them.
Working long hours from sun up to sun down.
It was nothing for the farm owners to fog everyone in the orchard with insecticides and herbicides.
Contadina is now owned by Del Monte.
Del Monte doesn't have a good track record with its world wide operations and treatment of its workers.

Sometimes I just want to cringe when I see these products in the store and think about the working and living conditions of the human beings that work for them.

Sorry I just had to get that put of my system.

You're absolutely right. The book Tomatoland is a good place to start with respect to the miseries (human and environmental) associated with growing tomatoes commercially. But who DOES "have a good track record with its world wide operations and treatment of its workers"? Other than the ultra-premium brands affordable to the rich only, there aren't many options. Even many of the brands claiming to be organic and humane are engaging in more whitewashing and PR than they are in better practices. How 'bout those cage-free eggs in the grocery store?

I'm not criticizing your point; I agree with you. It's just that when I need tomato paste, the choices I can afford are Hunt's, Contadina and the store brand, and I doubt any of them are treating their workers well. When you get right down to it, almost nobody is treating their workers well.

Some days when I think of the misery and destruction associated with everything I eat, wear and use, I just want to cry. And then we ship off our waste for supposed recycling, and poor people worldwide crawl all over mountains of our debris, giving themselves cancer just to try to survive another day.

The only thing we can actually do is what I do when I killed an animal.
That is to thank the animal for giving its life for me to survive.
It's the Indian aka Native American way and my way as well.
I've been this way since I was around 12 or 13 years old.
In this case remember how our food got here and show thanks and respect to the people that helped bring it here.

[zeuspaul]

I have wondered why we as an advanced civilization have to kill animals to eat. Sure it is what other species do as well. I understand fake meat made from plants is not a good substitute. Too much salt and it doesn't taste as good as meat.

Then I read about lab grown meat. They are cloning animal cells and then growing the meat in a lab. If/when this comes to market we may have a good substitute for killing animals just so we can eat. Maybe it will become a better choice.

You don't have to be rich to afford some organic foods. Some just grow their own or purchase a reasonably priced product. We have people who study the affects of insecticides and herbicides on human health. Some are banned and some highly regulated. Some foods have higher levels of these chemicals depending on how they are grown.

What's the risk to an individual? We don't really know. Many women choose to be more careful about what they eat when they are pregnant because it involves another life. But my life involves other lifes as well..my better half and my son.

How do we choose? Thanks to our scientists I know which foods may contain higher levels of unwanted chemicals. I have known for years that apples are high on the list. So I grow my own and purchase organic apples. I will pay a little more for this choice. Tomatoes are lower on the list so I am less concerned about tomatoes. But you don't have to be rich to buy Muir Glen organic tomatoes so that boosts them up to a more likely choice. An extra dollar isn't a big deal to me. Nobody has to get overconcerned it's just a choice. Just like smoking and drinking, some choose to smoke and or drink others not. However in this case the healthier choice is the cheaper choice.

[zeuspaul]

Contadina tomato paste gets good reviews for flavor. It is available at Ralphs where I do some of my shopping for 22.4 cents per ounce (+ 20% tip). The Muir Glen organic tomato paste I buy at Target costs me 21.5 cents (no tip) per ounce a slightly better price than Contadina so in this case the organic option is a better deal (flavor not considered). Both Muir Glen and Contadina use Roma tomatoes grown in California.

I wonder if Contadina has a typo in their specs at their website. The 6 oz can has a lot more potassium than the 12 oz can. Potassium is something I have to be cautious with due to one of my medications.

https://www.contadina.com/products/toma ... mato-paste

potassium.jpg

[zeuspaul]

I am working on an order at Sprouts and I spotted tomato paste in glass jars!! I prefer storing tomato products in glass jars.

Naturae Organic tomato paste in 7 ounce glass jars for $2.49. I did a little research. Grown in Italy on small farms. I think they are packed directly in glass jars. That works out to 35.6 cents per ounce based on the Sprouts price.

This one I have to give a try even at this premium price. If this turns out be as good as I think it might then I'll have to take a look at how much ketchup I use. Maybe when blended with applesauce and I am thinking a little yam or pumpkin puree I'll get a month's worth of ketchup. So for me it might be worth the extra buck per month for organic tomato paste stored in glass jars.


An Amazon link for 12 jars.

[zeuspaul]

In search of additional tomato products in glass jars (not prepared sauces) I came across Vitacost. They have Jovial organic crushed and organic diced tomato in 18 oz glass jars no salt or sugar added $4.19 per jar. Cyber sale 20% off through Nov 29, free shipping minimum $49 order. Jovial seems very similar to Bionaturae I referenced post #90 above. Both are Italian companies with tomatoes grown on family farms. Both use vine ripened tomatoes packed directly in glass. (to the best of my knowledge)

They also have Bionaturae organic strained tomatoes. They have the Bionaturae paste referenced above for $2.40 with the 20% discount ($2.99 x .8). I just paid $2.49 + 20% tip or $2.99 + some Instacart fees at Ralphs.

I searched a little further. Santa Cruz organic unsweetened applesauce 23 oz plastic jar $3.59 or Simple Truth organic unsweetened applesauce 23 oz plastic jar $2.79 (20% off also works with these I know because they are in my cart). I pay about double for organic applesauce in the little packets at Costco. This beats the Ralphs price for the same Simple Truth product.

They have a large selection of tea my better half will probably take a look before I place the order.

I have never placed an order with Vitacost so I can't recommend them. Amazon had excellent reviews for Bionaturae tomato paste flavor but poor reviews for shipping: broken jars loose lids. I am going to find out how good Vitacost is with their shipping.

[zeuspaul]

An additional discount code (JOVIAL for 15% off Jovial products) showed up this morning before I placed the order. Both codes were accepted so that is a total of 35% off the Jovial products (crushed and diced tomatoes). I consider that bargain territory. Both codes good through Nov 29.

Kroger (Ralphs) purchased Vitacost in 2014. I consider Ralphs among the better quality grocers.

[worth1]

Since the discussion started with sugars in ketchup we can't ignore the fact of just how nasty the owners of sugar companies are and how nasty they always been.
Just recently the us has banned imports from a company in the Dominican republic.
The major owners of that company are two nasty rich brothers in Florida.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanjul_brothers
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... -3xUt-MjJS

[worth1]

I wonder how a red sweet pepper based ketchup would be.
I happen to have a jar of them I need to do something with.
I can't remember the name of the things but they're like a bell pepper but better.
Here they are.

20221130_121426.jpg

[karstopography]

https://www.primalkitchen.com/products/ ... ed-ketchup

Then there’s the Primal kitchen unsweetened organic ketchup.

One thing I’ve noticed about a lot of recipes for making tomato sauces and the like is that they always want to add sugar to the sauce. When I make sauce from the whole tomatoes I’ve froze, I never add sugar. They are perfectly sweet enough as it is without any additional sugar being needed.

Truly, why does everyone in America like things so gosh darn sweet?

How sweet ketchup tends to be is a big reason I’m not such a fan. Maybe I should try the Primal kitchen ketchup.

[worth1]

I hate it when someone puts sugar in tomato sauce.
I've seen it put in fried chicken mix as well.
Absolutely disgusting.

[karstopography]

I ordered the primal kitchen regular and spicy unsweetened ketchup. Maybe they will be what ketchup should taste like without all the unnecessary added sweeteners.

[Sue_CT]

My homemade tomato sauce recipe calls for 1-2 Tb sugar, but it makes about a gallon of sauce. I was always told it was to counteract acidity of the tomatoes. The sauce does not seem sweet at all. Not everyone uses sweet garden tomatoes. Some tomatoes do taste more acidic. I don't know if I would be able to tell the difference with it or without it, but I did ask when I first started using the family recipe.

[karstopography]

Primal kitchen no added sweetener ketchup is a hit! Four people including myself all gave it a big thumbs up. Good tomato flavor without being cloyingly sweet.

We tried the ketchup with oven baked russet “fries” and daikon radish oven baked fries. Big hit and exactly how ketchup should taste.

[worth1]

Primal kitchen has 1 gram of sugar per tablespoon.
Hienz has 4 grams per tablespoon.
Primal kitchen has balsamic vinegar in it.
They say no added sugar but balsamic vinegar depending on concentration is pretty sweet.
I've reduced it down to a sweet tangy syrup before.
This is why the Primal kitchen tastes better and the reason why if I want a tomat like sauce to taste sweet I use a wine reduction instead of sugar.
I simply replace the water with wine and cook it down.
If I want an instant sweet I use a sweet fortified wine and don't reduce it down.
Port is one of my favorites for this.