Fusarium and new raised beds

Everything About Tomatoes

Use old soil in new beds?

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Yes
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Cranraspberry
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Fusarium and new raised beds

#1

Post: # 84747Unread post Cranraspberry
Mon Dec 12, 2022 1:46 pm

Hi all,
Last season was our first year gardening, and we made a lot of mistakes, but also learned a ton! We have a small plot in a community garden and the most difficult issue we faced was fusarium wilt.

This winter we are redoing all the garden beds and putting in new 12” high raised beds. Two of the smaller beds will be dedicated to tomatoes, and we’ll have a large 4x10 bed where we hope to fit two additional tomato plants along with all the other crops we hope to grow.

Here’s my biggest concern right now: do I reuse some of the existing tomato bed soil (with fusarium issues) in the new beds, or start fresh? Part of me thinks that putting in old soil that I know definitely has disease is foolish, the other part thinks that our plot is so small and so close to others that the fusarium will come back no matter what.
The existing soil isn’t great, but I’m not sure that whatever topsoil I purchase will be any better. We’ll be amending the existing soil and/or new topsoil with peat, compost and other products. Would love to hear your thoughts!
Small community garden plot in zone 7 (DC area)

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#2

Post: # 84914Unread post MissS
Wed Dec 14, 2022 11:39 pm

In my opinion, your best bet is to replace all of the soil. You might want to place a barrier under it as well. I really could not advise you what so ever on mixing the old soil with the new. That is just asking for disaster. I will say that I once has an issue with wilt and it only showed up on one spot in my garden. It was there for years and with me being careful it never did spread down the bed to the other plants, so it is not inevitable that you will be infected again as long as you use good gardening practices.

You can also look into planting varieties that are resistant to fusarium wilt.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#3

Post: # 84916Unread post Cranraspberry
Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:44 am

Thank you! We’re in a community garden that was started in the late 70s, so I strongly suspect that diseases are everywhere given how many people have gone through these plots, how dense everything is etc, but I will try all new soil in the tomato beds. I have a lot of resistant hybrids planned, and also want to start inoculating with Mycostop from seed, hopefully that combination will help.
Last year the only three plants that made it were a Better Boy, a Pink Brandywine (this was surprising) and a Pineapple that lost about half of the plant but seemed to perk back up after some Mycostop and made it till frost.

It was such a bummer - I was doing so well keeping up with sprays and battling all leaf fungal diseases, when all of a sudden the “leaf half yellow” fusarium thing set in basically overnight. We went from having some of the nicest tomatoes in the garden to very sad plants very quickly.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#4

Post: # 84938Unread post MissS
Thu Dec 15, 2022 9:02 am

@Cranraspberry I certainly do understand your problem. I used to have a plot at my community gardens too and while it is very nice to have some land to grow on it can also bring on lots of problems. I have now brought my plants home but have had to sacrifice having lots of room for the convenience and control of growing at home.

Another thought on growing at your community gardens. Rather than building new beds how about building a support rack and grow your plants in buckets? You wouldn't need as much soil (the expensive part) and your plants would not be touching the ground to get fusarium. You would need to water you plants more often though. It's something to look into.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#5

Post: # 84956Unread post Cranraspberry
Thu Dec 15, 2022 5:21 pm

Thanks again @MissS! Three (and a half - had to pause for the rain today) out of five beds are already built so I think we’re sticking with those. If all else fails I might consider looking into grafting, but hopefully between the new soil, resistant hybrids and Mycostop we will have a better year.

By the way the lady who used to “own” our plot stopped by one day and told me that she was shocked by how well everything was growing. She said she had spent three years at that plot and put hundreds of dollars into new soil, amendments etc, but absolutely nothing would grow, not even squash. Because of that she got back on the waitlist and got assigned a different plot, where everything is growing well for her. So in spite of all our issues looks like we’ve had some beginners luck after all.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#6

Post: # 85029Unread post Paulf
Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:26 am

Many years ago before we had a suitable spot for gardening in our own yard, we relied on a community garden. While the harvests were spotty we helped out disease control with a mulching program of grass clippings and straw. Since we were able to keep the same spot for the next year, and the next, I tilled in the mulch. All around us gardeners had several soil borne diseases show up. Because of our mulch that limited ground to plant contact we held off the wilts and blights common to the other plots. We did not escape the diseases completely but put them off for most of the year.

Even in our own gardens, cultural prevention tactics such as complete clean-up of the garden in the fall, a strict mulching program, no overhead watering and sanitizing all trellises and cages in the spring have helped create a disease free garden despite all those bad microbes being ever present in the soil. They are there and in large numbers. Even replacing soil will not bar them from repopulation in a short amount of time. We have to learn to exclude wilts and blights and other pests. It is easier and cheaper to exclude than it is to eradicate with chemicals.

I forgot to mention anything about crop rotation. Possible for some but not for my small area. And looking for disease resistant varieties is useless if you want certain sizes, flavors, colors and types of vegetables. No need to give up quality just to fight off diseases that will be there anyway. Disease resistance is not disease prohibition...those varieties may not be affected for about a week longer than other varieties which is no time at all. For commercial growers a week can mean the farm, but for home gardeners that week means nothing.

Sanitation in the fall reduce the places for disease to overwinter and a healthy mulching program will reduce soil borne diseases to a great extent. Healthy plants are able to fight off diseases and other pests much better than those fending for themselves that have a clear path from soil to leaves for the wilts and blights to follow.

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#7

Post: # 85032Unread post Cranraspberry
Fri Dec 16, 2022 11:53 am

One of the few things we actually knew about was mulching! Unfortunately with fusarium it enters the plant via the root system, so there’s only so much you can do. I have heard some anecdotal evidence that working in more organic matter and getting some beneficial mycorrhizae to counteract the fusarium spores can help lower disease pressure, but once it’s there all it takes is a few spores for it to spread…

I’m also hoping that we’ll have stronger plants this year. Last year we made some beginner mistakes and our plants were definitely VERY stunted. First we put them out too early, then we relied on fresh bagged manure to take care of all fertilization needs, then after we lost a few of the initial plants to cold nights we got replacements that already had fruit/flowers on them so they never took off after transplanting etc. This season the plan is to have much better amended soil, stronger seedlings and set them out after Mother’s Day, as well as going crazy with mycorrhizae.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#8

Post: # 85034Unread post MissS
Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:12 pm

@Cranraspberry I'm sorry, I forgot to welcome you to the Junction. So Welcome!!! It's a great group with lots of knowledge to share. I'm glad to see that you have stepped right in and asked away.

When you mentioned planting out on Mother's day, I went to see where you are from but couldn't find it. It helps a lot to know where you are growing when we offer advise. I would rarely give someone in Alabama the same advise that I would in Wisconsin. Adding your location to your profile will benefit us all.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#9

Post: # 85039Unread post Cranraspberry
Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:40 pm

@MissS thanks so much! I’ve done more reading than I’d like to admit on here, TV and Houzz and everyone’s knowledge is truly a fantastic resource. My husband and I signed up for a garden plot almost on a whim with no previous experience, so the learning curve has been steep!

By the way funny story, there was a lengthy 2+ year waitlist at our community garden. Three days before my husband was supposed to leave for a year long deployment we got the email that our turn had come up. Fortunately they let us defer for a year till he returned, but by then I was so exhausted from a year of solo baby care in the middle of covid that we almost didn’t go ahead with it. I basically told him that my only commitment to the garden would be to eat from it, everything else was on him. Well fast forward a few months and I very unexpectedly fell head over heels in love with gardening and was spending every day there. Some of my best memories from this past summer was waking up at 5 am on weekends, sneaking out while my daughter and husband slept in, and enjoying sunrise in the garden with a cup of iced tea and freshly picked mint.

And I just added location info, we are in Zone 7 in the DMV (DC/MD/VA) area! So hot summers, lots of humidity (fungal infection paradise) and killer mosquitoes, but a longer growing season than MA where we’re from originally. I also have that in my signature since I’m always curious to see where people are from.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#10

Post: # 85041Unread post Cranraspberry
Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:10 pm

Thought I’d add a photo of our plot - the happy days before all diseases kicked in at once!
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#11

Post: # 85091Unread post Paulf
Sat Dec 17, 2022 12:07 am

cranraspberry: you are correct that fusarium enters plants through the root system, but mostly through root injury caused by nematodes. Since my area has very little if any nematode activity, we see other wilts and blights as a major problem and most are soil to leaf contact vectoring. Thank goodness for our cold winters, but I still dislike winter.

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#12

Post: # 85107Unread post Cranraspberry
Sat Dec 17, 2022 8:20 am

I’m an odd one to actually enjoy winter, but the soil benefits are not something I took into consideration before! We’ve had some fairly cold weather already (nights in the 20s) and three days next week nights are dipping into the teens. The soil from our existing beds is currently in two large piles, maybe being above ground like that will help kill some of the nasty stuff off.
We have the following setup planned: two dedicated tomato beds (these will get new soil based on the consensus here), one large 4x10 bed that will have a mix of plants including two additional tomatoes, and a bed for squash. The mixed use and squash beds will get amended old soil.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#13

Post: # 86443Unread post Cranraspberry
Sat Jan 07, 2023 4:44 pm

I thought I’d post an update. The beds are all done - still can’t believe I managed to haul those 2x12s all by myself in my Honda Fit, especially given that my trunk is full of stroller and back seat is permanently taken up by my daughter’s car seat! I’m almost done filling the non-designated tomato beds (roughly 25% peat moss:35% Leafgro leaf compost: 40% existing soil with some perlite thrown in), and now thinking about how to do the two tomato beds.

I was thinking about keeping the same ratios (I had really great results with a similar mix in my grow bags last year), however I am going to have to purchase top soil. This is proving to be much trickier than I expected! Here are my options:
- the $3/bag stuff at big box stores - appears to be mostly mulch, not exactly what I’m looking for
- drive 40 mins out to a nursery in VA that sells “plain” top soil - they don’t say what’s in it, but the picture looks like basic dirt. $4.99/40 lbs and will likely require multiple trips since I can only fit about 5 bags in my car at once. Also I haven’t seen it in person, going by the photo on their website.
- this garden soil at Lowes: https://www.lowes.com/pd/HARVEST-Organi ... 1000162789 - there was a torn bag and the texture looked pretty good - lots of sand, not too many large sticks, felt like “dirt+compost”. $7/1.5 cu ft, easier to get to than the VA nursery. BUT even though this is OMRI listed the label says it can contain manures, and I’m pretty paranoid that after all this work I might end up with unusable soil because of herbicide issues.

Basically trying to decide between options 2 and 3. Do I go the more time consuming way and gain peace of mind, even if it means driving in VA (and I hate driving in VA! Everyone always complains about MD drivers, but I’ll take MD over VA any day haha), or stick with the Lowe’s soil I’ve already seen and hope for the best. Maybe a bean seedling test is in order?
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#14

Post: # 86466Unread post Seven Bends
Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:35 pm

I've been uniformly disappointed by the so-called topsoil available at our big box stores around here (VA suburbs of DC); I won't ever buy it again. I've purchased things that have turned out to be bags of sand, bags of something gray the consistency of ashes or plaster dust, and lots of bags of basically mulch and chopped boards. I bought topsoil once from Merrifield Garden Center (looks like that's the place you're considering?) and wasn't impressed. Not as bad as Home Depot, but basically a mix that was a high percentage of mulch/compost and low percentage of actual soil.

I'd look for a place that specializes in topsoil, fill dirt, compost and mulch, especially places that mainly sell in bulk. Here are some possibilities for you, but maybe you can find something suitable near your part of the DC area. I haven't purchased from any of these companies, so these are just possibilities, not recommendations:

https://www.veterancompost.com/our-products/ Veteran Compost sells compost, soil, and raised bed mix, plus assorted other things like worm castings. Scroll pretty far down for the soil. Bag or bulk. They deliver, but I don't know what the minimum delivery amount is. The compost looks to me like it has lots of large mulchy pieces in it, but the soil might be what you need.

https://remingtonmulch.com/soil/ Remington Mulch sells topsoil, fill dirt, and compost, bag or bulk. I think the minimum delivery amount is 5 cubic yards, which would be way more than you need. They have multiple locations, all in Virginia, including Fairfax, Springfield and Dulles.

https://www.springfieldtopsoil.com/inde ... ur-topsoil Springfield Topsoil sells topsoil, organic soil, fill dirt, and more. Delivery to residences and landscape contractors. I think it's bulk only but not sure.

Could you organize a bulk delivery from one of these companies to the community garden through your garden coordinator? Maybe other gardeners could buy in also, if there's a delivery minimum. Or you can rent a pickup from Home Depot and haul a cubic yard from one of these companies yourself, or pay a landscape contractor to haul it for you, but be sure to be specific about what you want and where you want them to get it, so you don't end up with a load of mulch/compost or worse.

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#15

Post: # 86474Unread post Cranraspberry
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:19 am

@Seven Bends thank you so much, this is beyond helpful! I’m really surprised that something as basic as topsoil is turning out to be the trickiest part of this project. Bulk delivery definitely looks like it would be the way to go, but I’m not even going to touch that one - our garden people are absolutely crazy. You know the extra type A kind of DC people? The ones that feel Very Important and have an innate need to regulate things like the color of tomato cages and how many inches tall your raised beds can be? Well that’s our crowd, haha. I thought our condo association listserv was nuts, but once I joined the garden one it took it to the next level!

Remington looks great but 45 bag order minimum, even for pickup. Veteran Compost looks very interesting (albeit pricey), but it’s 1 hour 20 mins from me each way, ouch. What a bummer that the Merrifield top soil was high in organic matter - I’m adding so much of that already that I just need some basic dirt for structure. I’ll have to do some more searching, I think I came across a few places by Frederick that sold bulk soil, but also had the option of bagged, that’s a little closer to us although still quite a hike. The closest nursery to us is American Plant, and they sell a Frey Brothers “topsoil” that also seems high in OM, but maybe I’ll grab a bag this week and check it out: https://americanplant.store/soil-topsoil-40-lb/
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#16

Post: # 86475Unread post Cranraspberry
Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:29 am

@Seven Bends and could I ask you an unrelated question? It’s so great to find someone local. We didn’t do any spring crops last year since we only got our plot mid-April. What do you usually grow in the spring and when do you start? We were too late with planting our fall veggies last season, so didn’t get much of a harvest, and rodents ate all our beets and chard, so looking forward to a redo in the spring.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#17

Post: # 86488Unread post Cranraspberry
Sun Jan 08, 2023 10:35 am

After thinking about this some more I'm starting to wonder if moving to a Mel's Mix type of soil would make my life easier. That way I could eliminate the whole top soil issue completely. Not sure I'm willing to go a full 1/3 vermiculite for both $$ and moisture reasons (we're on water logged clay), but a 4 cu ft bag is about $60, and I could split that between two beds and combine with a 40:60 mix of peat and Leafgro along with some pine fines. The beds are 12" tall, so I'd likely throw some leaves/branches/garden waste on the bottom of the bed as a "hugel lite" and to have less space to fill.
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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#18

Post: # 86532Unread post Seven Bends
Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:30 pm

Cranraspberry wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:29 am @Seven Bends and could I ask you an unrelated question? It’s so great to find someone local. We didn’t do any spring crops last year since we only got our plot mid-April. What do you usually grow in the spring and when do you start? We were too late with planting our fall veggies last season, so didn’t get much of a harvest, and rodents ate all our beets and chard, so looking forward to a redo in the spring.
In spring, we grow lettuce, radishes, beets, spinach, English peas, sugar snap peas, cabbage, broccoli, potatoes and onions. Virginia Tech has a simple home gardening guide with a table of planting dates for the planting zones in VA. Click on the link on this page https://www.pubs.ext.vt.edu/426/426-331/426-331.html and go to p.4 (last spring frost 4/15-4/25) or p.5 (last spring frost 4/5-4/15), depending on where you are in the DC area. The dates they give are pretty good, though sometimes a little unrealistic. It tends to be much too wet, muddy and cold to get anything planted outside around here in mid-February, and even early March is a challenge, though it might be easier if you're doing everything in raised beds.

Cabbage and broccoli you need to start from seed indoors, or buy transplants. They can't be direct-seeded outdoors around here in spring. In 2022, I planted my cabbage and broccoli seeds indoors on 2/19 and transplanted into the ground on 4/4, a little later than ideal but there was a bad cold snap in late March, so I delayed. Transplants are pretty readily available from big box stores and garden centers if you don't want to grow them yourself.

Peas need to be planted as early as possible; we run out of season very quickly in spring because it gets too hot too soon. I planted mine (direct-seeded) on 3/15/22 and only got about a 2-week harvest period before they died from heat. To get a head start, some people recommend seeding indoors in a rain gutter or similar and then carefully transferring them outdoors without disturbing the roots (peas are very sensitive to transplanting). I haven't tried this yet. Bottom line, they're not the easiest crop to grow around here, but you'll get some peas if you get them in the ground by mid-March and keep them watered. Sugar Snap and Super Sugar Snap did well for me; Cascadia didn't like the heat. Wando is a relatively heat-tolerant English (shelling) pea.

Lettuce, radishes, beets and spinach are easy to grow here in the spring. Radishes and beets need to be direct-seeded. Sow the seeds more heavily if you're planting early when the soil is still cold, and be patient. We plant a small bed of radishes every 1-2 weeks beginning in early March and continuing through mid-April. After that, it will be too hot for them to mature. French Breakfast & Crimson Giant do really well. I planted a small bed of beets on 3/15 and got good germination thanks to a warm snap but then had to cover them for several weeks to keep them alive when it got unexpectedly cold. After that, they did great. I planted another bed on 4/15, a little too late but they did fine, just didn't grow quite as big because the heat shut them down early. April 1 is probably a good compromise date if you're only going to plant one patch. Detroit Dark Red remain my favorite for flavor, texture and reliability; Red Ace was pretty similar; Boro had great production of perfect, beautiful beets but they weren't quite as sweet.

Lettuce and spinach can be direct-seeded pretty early (3/15 or earlier) as long as it's not too wet, then do a few succession plantings. You can also get a jump on the season by starting some seeds indoors; they transplant pretty well. Spinach can be planted in late fall to overwinter and give you an extra-early spring crop, as long as the winter isn't unusually cold. Red Sails, Black-Seeded Simpson, and Little Gem lettuce are great for around here. I've also had good results from Salad Blend, Marvel of Four Seasons, and the various leaf lettuce mixes. Iceberg doesn't work around here, and big head lettuces in general don't do well here. Little Gem makes cute small romaine heads, is tasty and easy to grow. I grow Bloomsdale Long-Standing spinach. Lettuce and spinach bolt and get bitter pretty early here; you'll be pulling the plants by the end of May most likely.

People around here say you should plant your potatoes by St. Patrick's Day, but that never works in my experience. Too cold and wet. We planted on 4/12 and 4/23 this year, which was too late. We got potatoes, but they were smaller than normal. Late March to April 1 or so is probably your best bet, but be prepared to cover the plants at least once due to frost.

For bulb onions, you need to plant plants, which you can grow yourself or order from a place like Dixondale or Brown's of Omaha. We planted on 4/15 this year and that worked pretty well. April 1 would have been better.

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#19

Post: # 86556Unread post zeuspaul
Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:29 pm

Welcome to the forum @Cranraspberry I don't know how you are going to replace *all* existing soil. I would concentrate on fusarium resistant varieties. I see you had some success with Better Boy which is also on this list.

Big Daddy Tomato, Early Cherry, Tomi-T, Cedro, Easy Sauce, Giant Garden, Little Napoli F1, Patria F1, Plum Crimson F1, Carolina Gold, Jet Star, K2 Hybrid, Longkeeper, Manitoba, Medford, Mt. Delight, Mt Spring F1
Pilgrim F1, Siletz, Supersonic F1, Tasty Beef, Ultimate Opener, Valley Girl F1, Tidy Treats, Heinz 2653

How To Choose The Most Disease Resistant Tomatoes For Your Garden
https://www.gardeningchores.com/disease ... -tomatoes/

From that list I have only grown and can recommend Better Boy and Supersonic.

I share your concern about herbicides. Peat and bark are two amendments I don't worry about.

In lieu of vermiculite or perlite I prefer granular diatomaceous earth sold as floor dry at Autozone. But I use it in container mixes not in my beds.

How deep do you plan on going with the new soil? Tomatoes have two or three foot roots. You want to get deep with the soil preparation. I may have missed it but what kind of native soil are you dealing with clay? sand?

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Re: Fusarium and new raised beds

#20

Post: # 86560Unread post Seven Bends
Mon Jan 09, 2023 3:05 pm

Seven Bends wrote: Sun Jan 08, 2023 9:30 pm For bulb onions, you need to plant plants, which you can grow yourself or order from a place like Dixondale or Brown's of Omaha. We planted on 4/15 this year and that worked pretty well. April 1 would have been better.
Forgot to say, onions are day-length sensitive, so the kind you plant depends on your latitude. Here we need "intermediate day" onions ideally. Candy is the mainstay intermediate day sweet onion. I also grew Scout and Calibri this past year because they are supposed to keep longer in storage. Many of the long-day onions can be grown here, but short-day onions like Vidalia (Granex) won't form full-size bulbs due to day-length issues.

Apologies if you already know most of this stuff; I'm not sure whether you're new to gardening generally, or you're just new to the plot you acquired and have gardening experience already. Hope it's helpful!

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