2023 Potting Soil Thread

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Cranraspberry
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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#21

Post: # 89351Unread post Cranraspberry
Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:21 am

@Seven Bends I’m shopping mostly in DC or MD, but now that you mention it I think I saw the small yellow packs of Promix available for pickup at Home Depot in VA only. Interesting that there’s a difference, given how close everything is! Our local Ace has the giant bales of Promix BX, but not the smaller sizes. They also just brought in some PittMoss which I’ve been hearing about, I don’t think they had it last year.
Small community garden plot in zone 7 (DC area)

zeuspaul
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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#22

Post: # 89361Unread post zeuspaul
Sat Feb 18, 2023 12:56 pm

Tomatina wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 1:36 pm From my understanding, the peat in most pottingsoils, that is taken from everglades, is harmful to our nature. It should stay, where it was taken from - in the nature. It takes a very long time for the peat to form, for one meter, it takes about 1000 years.
These everglades are very important for the balance of our nature/climate.
So it might be a good idea, to use peatfree pottingsoils or just take your own "black gold" from the compost or gardensoil.
I use Canadian peat. Canada watches over their regulated peat industry. Over the years I have heard the complaints but have satisfied myself that is ok to use.

It is one of the few products I trust to not contain unwanted ingredients such as insecticides and herbicides. I can't make enough compost for my needs.

Of Canada’s 113.6 million hectares (ha), less than 0.03% has been or is currently used for horticultural peat production (29,750 ha). In 2015, out of the 29,750-ha total footprint, 58% was currently under production and 25% has been restored or reclaimed. The area that still needs to be restored accounted for 15% of the total footprint, while 2% has been converted to other land use (mostly agriculture). If you consider the total peatland area where sphagnum peat moss continually grows and the amount of area that is harvested for peat moss, Canadian sphagnum peat moss growth far exceeds the rate of harvest.
https://www.pthorticulture.com/en/train ... in-canada/

zeuspaul
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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#23

Post: # 89393Unread post zeuspaul
Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:37 pm

Seven Bends wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:08 am Home Depot here in the Virginia suburbs of DC has been carrying Kellogg soils for a few years now. I had a bad experience the one and only time I purchased a Kellogg product ("garden soil" that was basically a bag of wood mulch), so I haven't tried again. I'm sure it's not always like that; guess I just lucked into a bad batch.
I have never experienced inconsistency between batches and I have been using their products for over ten years. Kelloggs uses wood products in most if not all of their products. Some products have a lot more big chunks than others.

Kellogg Amend which is designed to be incorporated into the soil has too many wood chips for my liking so I don't mix it into the soil. Instead I use it and or groundcover bark as a mulch in my containers or in a ring around a plant in the garden. Next season it is ready to be mixed with the soil it is covering. I assume their Growmulch also has an abundance of larger noticeable wood chips.

I haven't noticed any obvious chunks of wood in the Patio Mix which I use as a starting mix, a container mix or dig it into a planting hole. My observation is it has a fine texture.

From Kelloggs

Why Aged Wood Fines in Soil is the Better Choice
<snip>
If you’ve enjoyed Kellogg garden products for any length of time, you’ll know that we incorporate wood fines into our soil mixes. It does make our soil products look different than conventional peat-based soils. Wood content helps create a healthy soil structure, which leads to strong, healthy plants. But did you know that even the wood fines we incorporate in our soils are sustainably sourced?

Better Soil Structure

Wood does amazing things for the physical characteristics of soil. While the little bits of wood in our products are small, soil particles are even smaller. If there is not enough different particle sizes in any given stretch of soil, the soil will become compacted and water and air will have a difficult time penetrating beyond the first few inches. The slightly larger size of wood particles force soil particles apart, allowing water and air to travel down away from the surface and towards plant root systems. That is why it is critical to mix soil amendments or planting mixes with your native soil rather than using them “straight.”

Those little spaces create storage pockets for water and air that plants need to thrive. Adding just 5% organic matter (one heaping shovel-full per one sqft.), to native soil can help that same soil hold 20% more water!

Better Soil Environment

Though you can’t see it with a naked eye, those tiny pieces of wood are chocked full of wonderful microorganisms that will promote an abundant diversity of life in your soil. We think good organic gardening is all about building life in the soil – which in turn, promotes a sustainable garden full of thriving, healthy plants.

Not only does wood come with its own beneficial organisms, it helps feed the organisms already in your soil. Wood is high in carbon, which is an ideal food source for nitrifying bacteria. You may have heard that wood particles can actually deplete the soil of nitrogen. This is true—only when applied by itself. We always properly age our wood fines and incorporate plenty of nitrogen to prevent any nitrogen depletion.

The end result is a vibrant soil environment that supports stronger, more disease and pest resistant plants. Isn’t that grand?

Greater Sustainability


Wood is a renewable, local resource. Thanks to modern foresting practices, trees are grown for their wood the same way that a field can be planted with orange trees. In fact, we often buy wood and plant material that come from orchards close to our manufacturing plants.

Additionally, we often buy wood that is headed to the landfill for whatever reason. Maybe it was sawdust from a sawmill, or post-consumer wood material. Why throw something away when it can be repurposed in a way that is hugely beneficial to the environment?

Organic gardening is about building life in the soil that will also benefit the larger environment – your garden, your neighborhood, your community. Using wood fines in our soil amendments, planting mixes and potting mixes to benefit the environment is just one example of how Kellogg is focused on sustainability.

<snip>
https://kellogggarden.com/blog/soil/why ... y%20plants.

Seven Bends
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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#24

Post: # 89402Unread post Seven Bends
Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:58 pm

zeuspaul wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 8:37 pm
Seven Bends wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:08 am Home Depot here in the Virginia suburbs of DC has been carrying Kellogg soils for a few years now. I had a bad experience the one and only time I purchased a Kellogg product ("garden soil" that was basically a bag of wood mulch), so I haven't tried again. I'm sure it's not always like that; guess I just lucked into a bad batch.
I have never experienced inconsistency between batches and I have been using their products for over ten years. Kelloggs uses wood products in most if not all of their products. Some products have a lot more big chunks than others.

Kellogg Amend which is designed to be incorporated into the soil has too many wood chips for my liking so I don't mix it into the soil. Instead I use it and or groundcover bark as a mulch in my containers or in a ring around a plant in the garden. Next season it is ready to be mixed with the soil it is covering. I assume their Growmulch also has an abundance of larger noticeable wood chips.

I haven't noticed any obvious chunks of wood in the Patio Mix which I use as a starting mix, a container mix or dig it into a planting hole. My observation is it has a fine texture.
I haven't tried their Amend or Patio Mix products; I'm pretty sure what I bought was labeled "Garden Soil." I never bought it again, so I don't know if there's any batch inconsistency; I was just trying to be fair in allowing for the possibility.

These products generally are formulated regionally, and formulations vary in their ingredients and percentages. Different regional formulators could have different quality assurance standards as well. We're on opposite sides of the country, so it's possible the Kellogg products you get are different in formulation or quality from the ones we have here. It's also possible the "Garden Soil" is very different from the "Patio Mix."

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#25

Post: # 89406Unread post zeuspaul
Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:42 am

@Seven Bends I don't think they have different formulations for different parts of the nation. They likely have different processing plants and different sources of material. I would think the end products would be similar.

They characterize their "Garden Soil" as having a woody texture. I don't doubt your characterization of the "woody texture". Judging from the name I would think it has more *wood* than the Amend product I use and I think that stuff is a bit *woody*.

Both our local Home Depot and Lowes have Kellogg Garden Soil in stock. I never gave it a second look because I don't buy products labeled garden soil. $10.50 for a 3 CF bag at our local Lowes for Garden Soil might be an option for me to use as a mulch. It would be a cheaper than the $8.50 I pay for a 2 CF bag of Amend. I might be able to use one or the other depending on what I am mulching. I never have enough mulch.

All Natural Garden Soil For Flowers & Vegetables

Ingredients
Aged recycled forest products, aged arbor fines, composted chicken manure, bone meal, alfalfa meal, oyster & dolomite limes (as pH adjusters), bat guano, worm castings, and kelp meal

KELLOGG GARDEN ORGANICS ALL NATURAL GARDEN SOIL for Flowers and Vegetables enriches and fortifies your native soil with bat guano, worm castings and kelp meal and is backed with a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Mix in with your native soil as an amendment to build and repair tired soil so plants can reach their full potential. Its woody texture creates the perfect balance of moisture retention and drainage, helping to break up compacted soils and providing an excellent environment for beneficial microbes to thrive and help feed your plants. ALL NATURAL GARDEN SOIL for Flowers and Vegetables contains no harmful synthetic chemicals, so there is no need to wear gloves or protective garments.


https://kellogggarden.com/products/kell ... rden-soil/
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Seven Bends
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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#26

Post: # 89433Unread post Seven Bends
Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:32 am

zeuspaul wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:42 am @Seven Bends I don't think they have different formulations for different parts of the nation. They likely have different processing plants and different sources of material. I would think the end products would be similar.
They do have different formulations for different parts of the country (by "formulations," I mean specific ingredient inputs and percentages). Just looking at the garden soil product, you in the west ("only available in AZ, CA, HI, NV, UT) get: https://kellogggarden.com/products/kell ... rden-soil/
Ingredient List: Aged recycled forest products, aged arbor fines, composted chicken manure, bone meal, alfalfa meal, oyster & dolomite limes (as pH adjusters), bat guano, worm castings, and kelp meal

Elsewhere they sell ("product not available in AZ, CA, HI, NV, UT"): https://kellogggarden.com/products/kell ... rden-soil/
Ingredient List: Processed Forest Products, Recycled Forest Products, Arbor Fines, Peat Humus, Sphagnum Peat Moss or Compost), Composted Poultry Manure and Organic Fertilizer. In Georgia, this product contains: 85-95% processed forest products, composted poultry manure, and organic fertilizer. In Texas, this product contains: recycled forest products, composted poultry manure, and organic fertilizer. (I don't know why that single parenthesis is in there; I copied/pasted from the website and it's in the original.)

My current bag of Miracle Gro potting mix has five different ingredient lists on it: the main list, plus other lists for CA, TX & ID, NH, and GA. Some of that may be due to different labeling requirements in the different states, but some of it clearly is different ingredients.

In a Wired article about planting mix, they say: "Good planting mix is mainly rotted organic material. Sta-Green's formulation varies by region, but typically a significant percentage of it is decaying plant matter. A common ingredient is rice hulls, which retain water. In Georgia, half of the mix is pine bark, which can help ward off root rot. In California it contains "forest products"—mostly mill leftovers."
zeuspaul wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 2:42 amI never gave it a second look because I don't buy products labeled garden soil.
I only bought it once and learned my lesson!

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#27

Post: # 89436Unread post GoDawgs
Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:49 am

Seven Bends wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:32 amThey do have different formulations for different parts of the country (by "formulations,"... In a Wired article about planting mix, they say: "Good planting mix is mainly rotted organic material. Sta-Green's formulation varies by region, but typically a significant percentage of it is decaying plant matter. A common ingredient is rice hulls, which retain water. [b]In Georgia, half of the mix is pine bark, which can help ward off root rot.[/b] In California it contains "forest products"—mostly mill leftovers."
Hmmmmm, I wonder if that has anything to do with forest products (mostly pine) being a huge industry here in Georgia. Pine bark is cheap and plentiful. Profit margin, you know. ;)

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#28

Post: # 89482Unread post rxkeith
Sun Feb 19, 2023 3:47 pm

the local wally store has the organic mix. looks to be ok.
i have been getting fertiloam, 8.3 liter bags the largest available for
general potting needs, and transplanting. that is close to $32.00/bag.
they also sell happy frog, and dr earth with mycorrhiza, but at over $21.00/bag
maybe a 3 liter bag, i limit what i buy. when i use the happy frog, i mix it with the
fertiloam at a 2:1 or 3:1 ratio. not sure if mixing is more beneficial compared to using
straight fertiloam or not. just trying different things, and seeing what happens.
for seed starting i get a compressed bale of sunshine mix. that lasts me several years.


keith

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#29

Post: # 89513Unread post zeuspaul
Mon Feb 20, 2023 3:43 am

Seven Bends wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 10:58 pm These products generally are formulated regionally, and formulations vary in their ingredients and percentages. Different regional formulators could have different quality assurance standards as well. We're on opposite sides of the country, so it's possible the Kellogg products you get are different in formulation or quality from the ones we have here. It's also possible the "Garden Soil" is very different from the "Patio Mix."
Kellogg Garden Products Focuses Growth Plan on Organic Soil
<snip>
Kellogg Garden Products, a Carson-based garden soil company her grandfather started nearly 100 years ago.
<snip>

Throughout the years, the siblings have expanded the company’s processing facility footprint to include Ontario in the Inland Empire; Lockeford near Sacramento; and Longview, Wash., while a fourth facility in Toledo, Wash., is under construction.

“The rest of the country is served through co-pack arrangements with local companies,” Kellogg Johnson said. “In Texas for example, there are three companies that are similar to us that package bark. We work with them on our formulations, and we have them produce, palletize and ship to Home Depot in every corner of the country.”

<snip>
https://labusinessjournal.com/retail/ke ... an-organi/

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#30

Post: # 89594Unread post zeuspaul
Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:17 am

GoDawgs wrote: Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:34 am I just checked our Lowes online. They didn't have the version you bought but did have Kelloggs Raised Bed and Potting Mix, 2 cu ft for $9.98.
I now have both and visually compared the two. The products are very similar. If I look closely I can see the rice hulls in the Patio Mix. Both products contain perlite but only a token amount. I don't think it affects the quality of the mix one way or the other- just enough so they can list it as an ingredient. Rice hulls are considered a substitute for perlite. The *wood slivers* in both products are clearly visible. I don't have a problem with wood if it is properly preconditioned. All of my own mixes use wood (bark) as a primary ingredient.

In the attached image the Patio Mix is slightly drier than the other because it was out of the bag for a few days which accounts for the slightly lighter color.

The Patio mix is the west coast version which is only available in AZ, CA, HI, NV, and UT. The ingredient list for the same named product for the rest of the nation is incomplete. It contains added fertilizers such as earthworm castings, poultry manure, and kelp meal, providing an excellent soil environment for plants which seems to be the same as the west coast version. Amounts may not be the same and some may be in token amounts.
https://kellogggarden.com/products/kell ... tting-mix/

The image of the Raised Bed & Potting Mix is also the west coast version only available in AZ, CA, HI, NV, UT. The ingredients for the rest of the nation are Recycled forest products, coir, perlite, dehydrated poultry manure, composted poultry manure, hydrolyzed feather meal, peat moss, kelp meal, worm castings and bat guano.
https://kellogggarden.com/products/kell ... tting-mix/
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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#31

Post: # 89630Unread post GoDawgs
Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:49 am

@zeuspaul , thanks for posting that photo. They sure do look similar.

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#32

Post: # 89714Unread post greenthumbomaha
Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:42 am

Seven Bends wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 11:08 am
Cranraspberry wrote: Sat Feb 18, 2023 9:04 am A lot of the soils I see here (DC area) are coming from West Virginia and Pennsylvania. I’ve never seen Kelloggs or Fafard here and Promix isn’t super common, at least not the smaller bags. We do get Black Gold from the Sungro family though and Coast of Maine and Fox Farms for the more pricey stuff. And of course Miracle Gro and Espoma are pretty ubiquitous.
Home Depot here in the Virginia suburbs of DC has been carrying Kellogg soils for a few years now. I had a bad experience the one and only time I purchased a Kellogg product ("garden soil" that was basically a bag of wood mulch), so I haven't tried again. I'm sure it's not always like that; guess I just lucked into a bad batch.

Promix has become more available in the last few years, now that they've created products for the general public in smaller sizes and more eye-catching packaging. They're in Walmart and Home Depot with some products now. I guess you still have to go to independent garden centers to get the large bales of the good stuff in boring gray packaging.

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#33

Post: # 89717Unread post greenthumbomaha
Wed Feb 22, 2023 9:52 am

I find the big box consumer versions vastly differ from the Pro Mix BM large bales. They seem a different peat, which flattens down considerably in a few weeks, and the perlite is specks and not chunks. I use it for short term crops such as lettuce.
Customers at WalMart will either gravitate to Miracle Grow or Expert Gardener as they are more familiar brands to the average gardener. There were huge stacks of Pro Mix left over on the Wal Mart parking lot last year.
Many people on the forum use various consumer Pro Mix packages with great success. I filled an entire raised bed for flowers with the cubes and it worked well. It's just the small pots that sink down to half filled that are frustrating for me.

- Lisa

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#34

Post: # 89757Unread post Greatgardens
Wed Feb 22, 2023 1:31 pm

jamiethemime wrote: Thu Feb 16, 2023 7:29 pm This stuff is on clearance at a local Menards at a decent-looking price, anyone know if it's any good? Probably going to head out this weekend to pick up some packs before it disappears

PRO-MIX® Compressed Premium Moisture Potting Soil Mix - 2 cu. ft.

I saw the same thing at our Menards. I think it would be worth a try at half-price. Let us know what you think, if you buy some.

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#35

Post: # 89775Unread post MissS
Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:10 pm

I bought Pro-Mix from Menards as a potting mix it is just fine. Do not use it as a seed starting medium. They also have a cheaper brand of potting soil that has been very good until last year. Master Garden. I was happy with it for years until last year as a potting mix. Hopefully they will have corrected the problem this year.
~ Patti ~

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#36

Post: # 89778Unread post jamiethemime
Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:58 pm

I ended up buying 3 bags of the pro-mix, will report back when I (eventually) get everything potted (May isn't too far out, right?). I'm using coir pellets and a mix from a local garden store for seed starting.

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#37

Post: # 89801Unread post westside bengal
Wed Feb 22, 2023 7:14 pm

For seed starting my usual mix Pro-Mix BX. I can buy it in either bale or bag form from a local greenhouse supply at a decent price. This year I am trying a bag of Pro Mix HP. Same as BX but with additional perlite. For seed starting I quickly run the mix through a screen to remove the big perlite chunks and sticks. For potting up I use as is. Here in the midwest we have a farm supply store called Rural King and that sell Fox Farm Happy Frog or Ocean Forest for $19.99 and when potting up my tomatoes or peppers and other plants I throw some of either or both into my mix.

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#38

Post: # 89826Unread post zeuspaul
Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:30 am

zeuspaul wrote: Tue Feb 21, 2023 2:17 am The Patio mix is the west coast version which is only available in AZ, CA, HI, NV, and UT. The ingredient list for the same named product for the rest of the nation is incomplete. It contains added fertilizers such as earthworm castings, poultry manure, and kelp meal, providing an excellent soil environment for plants which seems to be the same as the west coast version.
The ingredients for the rest of the nation were hiding in the Download SDS Sheet link.
https://kellogggarden.com/products/kell ... tting-mix/
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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#39

Post: # 89874Unread post Moth1992
Thu Feb 23, 2023 11:18 am

I will probably mix my leftover soil from last year with some compost and some potting mix and some coir.

I got Proven Winners from home depot and Blue Ribbon from my nursery last year and had no complains. But i might try to go peat-less this year.

Several countries are banning peat but the US as usual seems to be behind....

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Re: 2023 Potting Soil Thread

#40

Post: # 89879Unread post edweather
Thu Feb 23, 2023 2:03 pm

Is there something wrong with peat🤔
Southeast GA, USDA 9a, HZ9, Sunset Z28

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