Olive oil and butter

[Shule]

Today, I discovered that mixing a little butter with extra virgin olive oil when frying quesadillas makes a huge beneficial flavor difference, and is preferable to using just one or the other.

It works with avocado oil, too. (When using just oil, I prefer avocado oil.)

Normally, I'm not a big fan of using extra virgin olive oil with quesadillas, but mixed with butter, it's great. It doesn't take a lot of butter or oil, when they're together.

Another plus about using butter, if you add the butter first, is the pan is less likely to smoke when you add the oil. (Although you shouldn't make it hot enough to smoke by then, ideally.)

[Shule]

The problem with using just butter and nothing else, is you get extra flat quesadillas (and extra flat quesadillas don't taste as good for some reason). The oil brings out the cheese juices more. It puffs up the tortillas.

[Shule]

The problem with using just oil is you don't get that buttery taste (but if you cook the quesadillas super long, it simulates something similar). If you don't cook them extra long, they may taste like they need salt (but with the butter, it doesn't seem like it needs salt; we use unsalted butter, by the way).

[CrazyAboutOrchids]

I do that with lots of things. Olive oil is supposedly better, but nothing beats a bit of butter! Mixing them allows the best of each to shine!

[worth1]

A good quesadilla begins with good flour or corn tortillas.
A good flour tortilla is made with lard.
Not industrial lard but rendered lard from cooking a pork roast or making carnitas.
If one chooses.
This same type lard can also be used in place of the flour olive oil combination.
Obviously the water left in the butter has something to do with the flavor and texture mixed in with the olive oil.
Also the milk solids left in the butter caramelize to add flavor as well.

[JRinPA]

I was wondering what shell @Shule is using, corn or flour. I don't bother with corn tortillas for tacos or quesadillas. Tacos shells are a generic flour tortilla fried in canola and quesadillas are a specific flour tortilla done in olive oil.
I don't think they need butter, but if I tried to mix butter in my process, it might taste better, but that would be a smoking mess. For me, the key to the perfect golden shell for quesadillas is keeping the pan at just the right temp. Too hot and it get splotchy dark spots instead of a uniform gold. I generally run off 14-18 and the first couple are light, then they get good and golden until the pan gets too hot, and it takes a while to cool down. I can't imagine what a mess it would be for my process to try to mix butter in there!

[Shule]

@JRinPA
Hmm. For me, butter makes it smoke less (not more), and makes it less messy. I'm not sure what we're doing differently.

I use store-bought white flour tortillas for quesadillas (no particular brand; I've used lots of kinds and they're all fine). I haven't tried homemade ones on quesadillas, yet. I didn't know anyone ever used corn tortillas for them until Worth mentioned it (I hadn't even thought about that, but I'm sure it tastes great).

This is what I do:

Pan:
I take a 10" or 12" cast-iron skillet (depending on the tortilla size). I put it on a large electric burner. I pre-heat it to 4.5 (a half-step below medium) while I cut the cheese and stuff. If I were to use a different stove, I might use a slightly different heat setting. Anyway, on 4.5 (on our stove), the oil shouldn't smoke at all, unless you're using only extra virgin olive oil (in particular) without butter, and aren't cooking any food in it, yet.

Inside the quesadilla:
I cut two slices of cheese per tortilla (ideally broken up and spread out sort of evenly), with the tortilla folded in half over the cheese (we've been using cheddar or mozarella, lately, but I know Monterey Jack melts faster). I may or may not add chopped or diced onions with the cheese (it's better with onions, but I don't always want to cut onions).

Cooking the quesadillas:
I add a little butter to the pre-heated pan (sometimes I add it soon before it's fully heated). I add some oil into the butter and spread the butter and oil around. I put two folded over filled tortillas in the pan. To make sure the oil/butter is spread around the pan well, after initially putting the filled tortillas in the pan, I move them around in circles for a bit (or as much as I want). I flip them over as soon as the cheese melts enough for the contents not to come out. I keep cooking and flipping periodically, pretty much as long as I can without it burning (the longer it cooks, the better it tastes). More flips also tend to mean more taste, too, I've noticed. If I use cheddar, the cheese is normally bubbling out before it's done (if it's not bubbling it hasn't been cooked long enough unless you used a very small amount of butter/oil).

Then I cook more quesadillas on the heated pan, if we want more. I may or may not add more butter/oil. For the first set of quesadillas, I like to use about as much butter as you might put on one slice of toast per pair of quesadillas, and I use oil to fill the rest of the grease need.

[JRinPA]

For me is an ongoing process, after the first there are always two going, side one, side two, onto rack. After the first two are started it becomes a rhythmic process up to the end.
3 gets held in left hand, oil splash, salt over pan so excess goes into pan, 1 spatula-ed to rack, 2 gets flipped away to where 1 was, 3 into pan where 2 was, scoop filling, cover with mound of cheese, close, scrape any lost filling into it, press it.
4 gets oil salt, 2 to rack, 3 gets flipped, 4 into pan, add filling add cheese, close it, press it
5 gets oil salt...through to 15 or 16 or whatever until rounds complete. And after that many the pan goes right outside because it will start smoking once it is done and has a build up.
Stainless tramontina skillet. I bolted the handle back on last year. The welds went after I don't know how many years. And the replacement pan was some new miracle pan and wouldn't cut it. Those stainless spot weld points were HARD but eventually I got through and put in little stainless nuts and bolts.

Never tried quesadillas in a cast iron skillet... I don't use olive oil in cast iron, it would be butter or canola depending on what is cooking. Or bacon grease! Likewise, if I tried butter in my tramontina it would blacken the bottom very quickly and quesadilla #5 through #16 would not cook well. I do use butter for frying off beans in that pan, and it gets black right quick.

But I only know of one brand of tortilla around here that makes awesome quesadillas. Most are way too wet fluffy and perfectly generic, like a mission. Those are easy to work with but don't taste nearly as good as the real dry ones that are very imperfect and hard to separate. But I have to keep both the good ones and the mission type on hand because the good ones make too thin and stiff of a taco shell. It will taste great but will fracture.

[Shule]

@JRinPA
That's really interesting. You're really serious about your quesadillas, by the sound of it. I usually only make two to four quesadillas at a time. I haven't tried making sixteen rounds of them, for sure (my process would take a very long time to do that). I've also only been grilling them for a few years.

Another thing I like to do is make baked cheese sandwiches, in the following fashion (but I've still never done 16 rounds of that, either):

Turn the oven on to 475 to preheat. Cut all your slices of cheese. Butter slices of bread. Put the bread butter-side down on a big thin, seasoned steel cookie sheet. Put two slices of cheese on top of each slice of bread. Put them in the preheating oven. While it's cooking, butter more bread to go on top. When the cheese melts a certain amount, take the pan out and put the buttered bread on top of the cheese. Put the pan back in. When the butter is melted, take it out again and flip them over. Put them back in until the oven finishes peheating. Then you're done. Note that the pan itself kind of grills the bottom-side down part of the sandwich while it's baking (so, it's not all from the heat above). I used to broil sandwiches, but this works so much better for me.

If your butter is frozen, you can just put it a frozen slice of butter under the bottom slice of bread and on top of the top slice (instead of spreading it), and it still works.

This works well for making several sandwiches at once, but as I cultivated the method around a pre-heating oven (rather than one with a constant temperature), 16 sandwiches or 16 sets of sandwiches might be pressing it (since it would still be at 475 when the second tray went in, and that's not how the first tray went). If I used a constant temperature, I'm sure it would be less than 475 (I just don't know how much less yet). I haven't attempted to create a method for baking quesadillas, yet. Frying seems more efficient there, since they're round.

[JRinPA]

LOL yeah there are some words throw around when the supply chain fails while the pan is buzzing. The young boy (now 8 yo springer but still "the little guy" in his own mind) scurries off for the safety of a far corner, while the old girl (knowing everything is fine) comes and sits really close expecting some food will hit the floor soon.

Those sound good. I have never done oven baked cheese sandwiches. Open face tuna sandwiches are about the extent of the oven sandwich experience here.

[Shule]

Thanks.

Anyway, what I really meant to focus on in this thread isn't how to make anything in particular. I meant to focus on the taste of olive oil and butter together (without particular regard to quesadillas or how you cook them). The scent of the oil seems to carry the butter, and I really like it. I'm sure it would be great in other things, too (like maybe pasta, or whatever). It has a flavor that can go well beyond extra virgin olive oil's normal domain, though (so, I don't mean to relegate it only to pasta).

[Sue_CT]

Butter IN the dough makes a huge difference in flavor. Then making sure they puff well when you cook them makes them very tender and not so flat. This is the recipe I use and I love it! The site was recommended by Worth.



Now interestingly, Worth says he doesn't like flour Tortillas but he makes them without butter. Try them with the butter, Worth you might like them a little better.

[Julianna]

I am a heathen that dry fries my quesadillas. It makes them super crispy.

[JRinPA]

Well I had no choice but to make some tonight, no butter though, and only half the batch. Thinking about the butter though...

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[worth1]

Butter IN the dough makes a huge difference in flavor. Then making sure they puff well when you cook them makes them very tender and not so flat. This is the recipe I use and I love it! The site was recommended by Worth.



Now interestingly, Worth says he doesn't like flour Tortillas but he makes them without butter. Try them with the butter, Worth you might like them a little better.

I've had flour tortillas made in every way possible.
I just don't care for them that much.
Flour in my case involves.
Dumplings.
Pasta.
Pie crust.
Gravy.
Cakes.
Crackers.
And so on.
Maybe it's because every corner in my area has a darn taco or burrito place.

[JRinPA]

With this mixing you got me thinking about the taste of different shortenings. For a year or two a while back, I was making a pheasant breast fried sandwich. I would use hoagie oil on the bread - olive oil, oregano, and a little garlic powder is what went in our salad dressing bottle labeled hoagie oil.

Later, I tried olive oil for a bit with another sandwich, and wasn't really impressed. Probably reubens.

My mom was a big lover of smart balance, and that is what she would almost always use. It tastes more like butter, but is a vegetable oil mix. It always seems to taste more salty to me than using unsalted butter. Oh yeah, okay it was reubens with corned beef that I tried olive oil, because I just thought the salty taste of smart balance combined with the saltytaste of corned beef was too much.

I can kind of see how using olive oil for the penetration and spread mixed with butter for the flavor would work out. It just seems like a mess to mix them.

I made a pan of deer pastrami reubens tonight. I went all out on testing with it. Four different shortenings on the bread.
1. Butter (microwaved 20 sec to spread)
2. Smart Balance
3. Olive Oil
4. Deer Tallow (microwaved 60 sec to spread)

They all cooked about the same and nothing smoked or burned. But each definitely tasted different.
Butter had a nice buttery taste which was good. That is my standard and I knew that I'd like that.
Smart Balance had a less buttery and sort of salty taste. I don't know how much salt it is in there, maybe none, but that is what my mouth says -salty, butter-ish.
Olive Oil - this left the bread with an off taste. The sandwich was still good, the ingredients still dominate it, but it is there and not as good.
Deer Tallow - this is not fully strained so it has some crackling in it. There is a definite taste to it, but it is a nice woodsie taste, and sweet.

I see no reason to even try olive oil or smart balance again. Butter is good but I never would have thought about using deer fat on a fried sandwich. I am rather shocked how good it is for cooking. I mean, I just "discovered" it today and feel bad/dumb for wasting it all these years. (i wonder if what I have is dramatically different from the results of the "right way" to do it, which calls for low temp, long duration)

I may not try olive oil mixed with butter for these, but I might well try butter and tallow mixed!

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[worth1]

Butter and beef tallow are good together.
I just did it yesterday with a grilled sandwich.
I much prefer clarified butter or ghee over regular butter though.
You don't get the burned milk solids.

[JRinPA]

I've never done that with butter, other than for lobster.

[worth1]

I've never done that with butter, other than for lobster.

The smoke point goes way up with clarified butter and ghee.
And the main reason it's done.
Also it prolongs the life of the butter and basically makes it shelf stable.
The reason for salted butter is to help the butter keep longer.
The salt mixes with the fluid and milk left in the butter but doesn't mix with pure butter fat.
Naturally all this started before refrigerators were in almost every household.

Deer tallow is a real game changer.
The fat around the kidneys is the best of all fats.
It's called suet in beef and others animals such as deer and leaf lard in pork.
It's the hard fat that solidifies faster than regular fat.
Also this fat is found at the lower end of the TBone.
In closing this fat if possible should be renderd out separately from regular fat.
Makes the best pastry like pie crust.

The water method is the best way to render fat this way you can skim off the clean white fat off the top.
I put all this in another kettle to heat up and evaporate any water that may be in it.

Probably way too much information but I've been doing it or involved in it since I was a kid.

[Shule]

. . .
I may not try olive oil mixed with butter for these, but I might well try butter and tallow mixed!
. . .

If you do try olive oil mixed with butter, be sure to melt the butter first, and then add the olive oil, and mix (you might need to heat it some after that). It doesn't have to be a lot of butter compared to olive oil (in fact, I think I prefer the reverse; a little butter goes a long way in infusing the olive oil with flavor). I haven't tried it on a sandwich, yet, though.