Tricot tomato breeding

[PoisonApple]

I know that tricot tomatoes while unusual aren’t terribly rare. I’m curious for those who have had tricot Solanaceae, has anyone found that their seeds are likely to produce another tricot? I have a Gold Medal mutant and it would be fun to experiment with selective breeding with such an obvious mutation.

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[JRinPA]

I have a tricot big beef right now. Can't say I ever saw one before, but I never pay that close of attention.

[Shule]

I have heard of a variety that is supposed to be tricot (or, it has tricot in the name). I have not heard much about it.

[Shule]

https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Tricot_Czech

Has anyone grown Tricot Czech to see if it's a tricot?

[TomatoNut95]

I've had tricot seedlings before on uncommon occasion but by the time it's an adult I don't remember that the plant had three seed leaves.

[PoisonApple]

https://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Tricot_Czech

Has anyone grown Tricot Czech to see if it's a tricot?

If anyone who is on the other tomato site knows creister, they could ask them. This person appears to have grown them in the past.

[bower]

I seem to recall @Tormato saying that seed from a tricot had an increased chance of producing other tricots. Sounds like a fun project to grow it out and see.
Seeing a variety with Tricot in the name, you'd think they may have actually stabilized the trait, which sounds like it's recessive, if I recalled correctly what Gary said.

[ddsack]

Like @TomatoNut95 I have had a few pop up over the years. Once they start to branch out and set suckers, they really don't look or act any different than a normal plant. I'd have to put a Tricot label on the plant to remember which one it was. They are a cute novelty when small, but that's about as far as it goes for me.

[PoisonApple]

Like @TomatoNut95 I have had a few pop up over the years. Once they start to branch out and set suckers, they really don't look or act any different than a normal plant. I'd have to put a Tricot label on the plant to remember which one it was. They are a cute novelty when small, but that's about as far as it goes for me.

Yeah, I think I’ll track this one and save some seeds to see if they have a likelihood of tricot babies. It also happens to be one of my most vigorous as well, so not a bad one to perpetuate if it’s fertile. For me the novelty is interesting mostly just for the genetic factor. I am fascinated with plant evolution and haven’t ever done anything with selective breeding. It’s not all that common for me to find an obvious genetic trait to selectively breed from. This gives me a chance to play with it a little and see what happens.

[Frosti]

one of my crosses was a tricot last season, I'll plant the next generation next week, I'll report back if I find another tricot in that batch.

[Doffer]

At page 28 of this paper:
https://tgc.ifas.ufl.edu/vol13/Volume13.pdf

Frequency of multiple A rather high frequency of cotyledons in selected and unselected plants with three and four populations.

Cotyledons was observed in a seedling population.
Self-pollinated seed was obtained from six plants with three cotyledons and from three plants with four cotyledons. Seedling populations were grown and classified. The following data indicate that selection was totally ineffective in increasing the frequency of miltiple cotyledons.

Is this what u want to try?

[PoisonApple]

At page 28 of this paper:
https://tgc.ifas.ufl.edu/vol13/Volume13.pdf

Frequency of multiple A rather high frequency of cotyledons in selected and unselected plants with three and four populations.

Cotyledons was observed in a seedling population.
Self-pollinated seed was obtained from six plants with three cotyledons and from three plants with four cotyledons. Seedling populations were grown and classified. The following data indicate that selection was totally ineffective in increasing the frequency of miltiple cotyledons.

Is this what u want to try?

Interesting, thanks, that too bad, but will probably try and see what happens anyway.

[JRinPA]

Question,
what are the advantages of a third or fourth cotyledon?

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[Shule]

@JRinPA

Cotyledons supply nutrients to the plant. If they're full-sized cotyledons, then I imagine the plant would have more nutrients and could survive longer if the soil is deficient in something.

[Doffer]

It also takes more energy to produce the extra cotyledon, this energy is comming from ...?

[PoisonApple]

It also takes more energy to produce the extra cotyledon, this energy is comming from ...?

While true it does take more energy, cotyledens are a net benefit in energy production/consumption. If that wasn’t that case a seedling would be unable to sustain itself.

[JRinPA]

The real question for me is, did the tomato that made those tricot seeds taste better when it was eaten last year?

Seems like tricot would be more complicated for the seed to unfold...more chance for failure.

Still if this Cuostralee instead of an Big Beef F1, I'd probably make a note to bag blossoms and try it just to see.

[Doffer]

A seed contains a limited amount of energy. This energy is used to form cotyledons, roots and other things.

If all energy is used up to produce many cotyledons, the plant will die because there is no energy left for, for example, root formation.
If all energy goes to other things such as root formation, no cotyledons will be formed and the plant will die.

There will therefore be an optimum amount of energy that can be used to form cotyledons. Could nature have already found this optimum over the past thousands of years?

[Doffer]

Still, it can be a fun experiment to see if you can grow a variety with 3 or 4 cotyledons.

[PoisonApple]

I definitely don't mean to be disagreeable, but I think it's important to consider a few things as it relates to cotyledons. The first is that they already exist in the seed embryo at the time of fruit maturity. So, no energy from the seedling is consumed in forming them. The energy to form them comes from the fruit producing parent. In addition, any stored energy in the seed is used in the first 1-3 days post germination. As soon as the seed emerges into the light, the vast majority of the growth energy is the result of photosynthesis (mostly) in the cotyledons. Of course it takes energy to grow them in size, but as I mentioned, physics demand that a cotyledon produces more energy than it consumes, thus an additional would not take energy from the rest of the plant. It would most likely be producing a surplus that is of net benefit to the plant, in the same way that the other 2 produce more energy than they consume to contribute to the root and stem growth.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that there clearly is an evolutionary balance that has been achieved in 1 and 2 cotyledon plants, as that is predominantly what nature has brought us, but that doesn't necessarily mean that 3 or 4 would be a bad thing (except when the result of genetic disorders). We have clearly filled in for nature when it comes to plant evolution in many cases, obviously brining both benefits and liabilities.

A seed contains a limited amount of energy. This energy is used to form cotyledons, roots and other things.

If all energy is used up to produce many cotyledons, the plant will die because there is no energy left for, for example, root formation.
If all energy goes to other things such as root formation, no cotyledons will be formed and the plant will die.

There will therefore be an optimum amount of energy that can be used to form cotyledons. Could nature have already found this optimum over the past thousands of years?