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Sungold F2 project
Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 7:49 pm
by Barmaley
I read that it is very hard to stabilize SunGold since it is a mixture of many different varieties. Nobody can predict what F2 will produce this year. However, I remember some people reported that they had some luck getting F2 even better than F1 - larger, more productive and with the same taste. Did any of you guys had this experience? If this is true I am thinking on trying to grow several F2 plants and if I can bump on that special plant I could simply overwinter if for hopefully several years. I am looking forward for your ideas and insights.
Re: Sungold F2 project
Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2025 9:43 am
by Greatgardens
You have an interesting idea, I think, about finding one you like and then keeping it going. Perhaps cloning it? Hopefully disease will not shut your experiment down. Maybe just keeping the original Sungold plant going would be a good option?
Re: Sungold F2 project
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:33 pm
by MalachiteJen
I like Sun Sugar more than Sun Gold. I ran out of seeds during covid and couldn't find any to purchase. I was able to buy a plant locally and ended up rooting a sucker in the fall and grew it out indoors over the winter. When it got too tall for my grow lights, I rooted another sucker and started over until it was safe to plant in the spring. It worked and was kind of a fun experiment, but it's not something I'd want to have to do every year! Depends on how much time and indoor growing space you have I guess. I'm short on both!
Re: Sungold F2 project
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:04 pm
by Doffer
I believe the dehybridization of Sungold is difficult due to the following reasons:
1. Exerted stigma leading to frequent cross-pollination without the grower noticing, because Sungold is heterozygous Beta orange, which is dominantly inherited.
2. It appears that many ‘wild genes’ still occur in the F1 generation, which likely exhibit negative traits in the F2 and further generations.
3. The flavor of Sungold is determined by multiple QTLs (quantitative trait loci), which are likely heterozygous and interact with each other.
Therefore, you need a large number of plants to find the one that combines all the right traits.
If you are serious about dehybridizing Sungold, and assuming that, for example, at least 4 genes determine the flavor, you would need 256 plants. If it involves 5 genes, you would need 1024 plants.
Re: Sungold F2 project
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2025 10:10 am
by Pleep
A careful outcross would perhaps be an easier route. To another stable orange cherry and then select for the Sun Gold flavor in the progeny.
Re: Sungold F2 project
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 5:29 pm
by Barmaley
Doffer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:04 pm
I believe the dehybridization of Sungold is difficult due to the following reasons:
1. Exerted stigma leading to frequent cross-pollination without the grower noticing, because Sungold is heterozygous Beta orange, which is dominantly inherited.
2. It appears that many ‘wild genes’ still occur in the F1 generation, which likely exhibit negative traits in the F2 and further generations.
3. The flavor of Sungold is determined by multiple QTLs (quantitative trait loci), which are likely heterozygous and interact with each other.
may I ask you to explain those jargon terms for me, a poor, uneducated hillbilly please. I am very much interested to learn more but I need it to me a bit easier to digest.
Re: Sungold F2 project
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 5:31 pm
by Barmaley
Doffer wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:04 pm
Therefore, you need a large number of plants to find the one that combines all the right traits.
If you are serious about dehybridizing Sungold, and assuming that, for example, at least 4 genes determine the flavor, you would need 256 plants. If it involves 5 genes, you would need 1024 plants.
Does it mean that if I will try to grow F2 the chance that it will produce tasty fruit which I will lately clone is between 1/256 to 1/1024?
Re: Sungold F2 project
Posted: Tue Feb 04, 2025 5:33 pm
by Barmaley
MalachiteJen wrote: ↑Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:33 pm
I like Sun Sugar more than Sun Gold. I ran out of seeds during covid and couldn't find any to purchase. I was able to buy a plant locally and ended up rooting a sucker in the fall and grew it out indoors over the winter. When it got too tall for my grow lights, I rooted another sucker and started over until it was safe to plant in the spring. It worked and was kind of a fun experiment, but it's not something I'd want to have to do every year! Depends on how much time and indoor growing space you have I guess. I'm short on both!
Ones I started my seeds too early and I found that if I need temperature very low but light high the plants grow very slow and I do not need to start new suckers to continue the process too often.