LED warning!!!!

[TheMad_Poet]

I don't really see burning on those plants, at least not on the true leaves. The cotillons are turning brown, which they do before they fall off naturally. The wilting and purpling is obvious, though.

These were the best of what was left. The ones I tossed were hideous. Busy correcting the problem and trying to save some, so I never took pics of the worst ones.

[svalli]

These were some of my plants grown 2015 under 5000K white LEDs.

PSX_20230425_224252.jpg

[TheMad_Poet]

These were some of my plants grown 2015 under 5000K white LEDs.

PSX_20230425_224252.jpg

Those plants look pretty bad to me, from what I can tell, and is how a lot of mine looked. So it sounds like the 5000k is not much better. I am going to work all summer if I have to to come up with a way to use the lites I have. If it hadnt got sooo cold out I could have had themn in the green house during the day. Its not heated so this recent cold snap forced me to keep them inside, under lites. So do you still use those lights??? did you ever come up with a work around???

[Seven Bends]

After the disaster I have had I highly recommend you put something over the lites as I have done. The 6500k lites are just too strong.

The 6500k refers to the Kelvin color temperature of the light. It doesn't have anything to do with the strength/intensity of the light, just the color. You can have a blindingly bright 6500k light or a weak, dim one, or anything in between.

[svalli]

Those plants look pretty bad to me, from what I can tell, and is how a lot of mine looked. So it sounds like the 5000k is not much better. I am going to work all summer if I have to to come up with a way to use the lites I have. If it hadnt got sooo cold out I could have had themn in the green house during the day. Its not heated so this recent cold snap forced me to keep them inside, under lites. So do you still use those lights??? did you ever come up with a work around???

My work around has been that I use a regular old fluorescent tube parallel the LED-tubes. This spring I purchased from a pet supply store a tube which is used for reptiles and it has 5% of UV-B. Here in the picture I have two 14000K LED grow lights and in the middle that fluorescent tube.

IMG_20230424_220553_1.jpg

You do not need to get such special reptile tube, just adding a regular daylight fluorescent tube next to the 6500K LED-tubes, will make your tomatoes grow much better.

Sari

[svalli]

These two Momotaro plants were started on a shelf where I have 14000K and 6500K+UV-A LED-lights. After couple of sets true leaves were growing plants started to show signs of intumescence. I then moved one of them on the shelf, where I have the fluorescent tube. Picture is taken 6 days after moving the plant on the left. This shows that change in the light can save a suffering plant.

Momotaro test.jpg

Plant on the right was also eventually moved to better light, since I could not let it die.

[TheMad_Poet]

Those plants look pretty bad to me, from what I can tell, and is how a lot of mine looked. So it sounds like the 5000k is not much better. I am going to work all summer if I have to to come up with a way to use the lites I have. If it hadnt got sooo cold out I could have had themn in the green house during the day. Its not heated so this recent cold snap forced me to keep them inside, under lites. So do you still use those lights??? did you ever come up with a work around???

My work around has been that I use a regular old fluorescent tube parallel the LED-tubes. This spring I purchased from a pet supply store a tube which is used for reptiles and it has 5% of UV-B. Here in the picture I have two 14000K LED grow lights and in the middle that fluorescent tube.

IMG_20230424_220553_1.jpg


You do not need to get such special reptile tube, just adding a regular daylight fluorescent tube next to the 6500K LED-tubes, will make your tomatoes grow much better.

Sari

Thanx so much Sari. That sounds like the best shot going forward. If I can find some 4' single fluorescent tube fixtures. Many places in the US don't carry fluorescents anymore, "they" are trying to make them illegal in the US. Already are in quite a few states. I will search and try to get some while I still can. Thought about going with real grow lights, but most I research have many complaints about quality and how long the last. I would spend the money if I knew it was agood product, but even the highest priced ones have naysayers. And with inflation and world economics the manufacturers of many products are cheapeng them up to save money. Can't trust anything these days. I'm ok for this year now, warmed up and everything is out in the geen house. May try heating the greenhouse in the future also. Gardening used to be so much fun!!! Turned to a nightmare this year LOL.

[pepperhead212]

Those LED "replacements" for T8 bulbs, I got in Home Depot (this must be a state where they outlawed old fashioned fluorescent), are growing the peppers faster than the T8 fluorescent bulbs, with no problems. I reversed the trays every few days, to make up for them. Here's 2 photos of peppers, eggplants, and flower seeds, showing no problems at all.
peppers, under half old T8 bulbs, and half replacement LEDs. by pepperhead212, on Flickr

Eggplants, Zinnia, and Mexican Sunflowers, 4-26. Started on 4-1. Grown under half LEDs. by pepperhead212, on Flickr

[svalli]

Looks good @pepperhead212 !

All my other plants thrive with just the LED-light. I love those extremely cool grow lights, which keep plants short and my flowers start to bloom early. I have not pinched buds on my peppers and quite many have already started growing fruit.

PSX_20230426_224149.jpg

[loulac]

It"s 2 years since I started using a Vevor variable transformer to lower the voltage of the lamps (180 V instead of 230). There is less heat and lamp life should be longer. Weather permitting, I take seedlings outside from 11am to 5 pm, they get enough sunlight. Of course I meet problems from time to time, too often an overdose of fertilizer slowly kills my seedlings.
Should you decide to buy a Vevor transformer carefully choose the seller, prices can be quite different!

[bower]

It's not too hard to get fluorescent fixtures if you look for second hand. The problem is, bulbs are becoming scarce. Even the last time I bought bulbs a couple of years ago, the display of these bulbs had been reduced to a tiny corner and not so much choice about the K type.

I had another problem today: one of my light fixtures came crashing down on the tomatoes when a nail pulled out of the wall. A couple of plants got broken but luckily the light and bulbs were not damaged. I cleaned it and checked the bulb seating and function before hanging again on some fresh and secure nails... oh my.

I also believe the LED lights are safer, not just because they are lighter but because they are built in and don't have any finicky bulb seating to come loose or go wrong when you move them around. Sadly that's no consolation if they damage your plants!

[pepperhead212]

Oh yeah - I just thought of something else I have, that shows how well LEDs have worked for me, and these are even hotter than the replacements in my seedling shelves - 60 w bulbs, with 5,000 lumens output (5,500 for the T5). Yet, those greens and herbs, that end up touching the bulbs, aren't bothered much by them! There is a T5 bulb, and 2 of the newer LED lights, and I try to keep the plants off the lights, eventually they end up touching, yet the LEDs don't burn the plants as much as the T5. And the only damage is where they are touching directly. All these are 5000k bulbs, again. I just went down and pulled some kale down from a bulb, with no damage! Still, I have to trim it soon. Here's an old photo:
Hydroponics, 1-11 by pepperhead212, on Flickr

[TheMad_Poet]

I didnt notice much on my pepper plants either, good to know others think ok for peppers. I will do some experiments later this year. I have new seedlings sprouted, and will have many plants left over to put under a combo of lights. Will try as Sari suggests, both LED and fluorescent. My lites are in pairs, do I will do side by side, and reverse the trays daily to even the exposure on one shelf, and not the other. Hope that works. Like many, I just need something to work for several weeks, and during cold snaps. Will also look into a small heater for green house. Electric would be expensive, not sure if propane would harm enclosed plants, or burn my green house on my deck, and thus my house down. NJ is one of the states Fluoro's are illegal in. will prolly be others that follow. Gonna start looking for more bulbs. I have quite a few fixtures, bit not sure how good the ballasts are. Hope the LED industry can come up w a good bulb for tomatoes. Heading to market place to look for bulbs.

[Sue_CT]

I still have my old flourescent bulbs and fixtures, and they all work, but I replaced them because they seemed to be losing some of their brightness. I had been using the same bulbs for quite a few years and the plants did not seem to be thriving as much under the lights as they used to.

[TheMad_Poet]

UPDATE: Moved most of my LED's to the pole barn, basement and garage, where the improved brightness is really welcomed. Have a few left to experiment with later this year with left over toms. All toms under Fluoro's now. Wont be able to use the grn house for the next few days, too cold again. I have about a doz fluro bulbs, most seem to work well enuff. Will try to purchase a few more while I still can. I would spend the money for good full spectrum grow lights, but too many reviews have serious complaints about all of them. A new box of 10 fluoros, plus what I have should last me forever. Any thoughts on the best and cheapest way to heat a greenhouse? Just during the day. Thinking propane, not sure if plants closed in could take the fumes or lack of O2, or if a burner would even burn in an enclosed space. I have some small electric heaters that I will try today without plants, just to see how warm I can get to. Dont need heat that ogten, so electric might be the way to go. EDIT: I tried the electric heater at med hi settings. Temps outside were around 42, after couple hours inside grnhouse was 48. So only gained 6 degrees. Might be useful in a pinch, especially if I add a 2nd heater. Kinda expensive for any longterm usage though.

[JRinPA]

Some good pic in this thread, and descriptions. Now I wonder how well my tomatoes are doing under the LEDs. Three or four days back I thought they were fine. There is some purple on the undersides of the leaves. Most years I have them outside by now.

I just saw a dumpster full of fluro tubes, I think they were T8. Dozens of them. I figure the place upgraded to LED. There were the drop ceiling translucent diffuser panels as well. Should I be digging them out to squirrel some away? I've never used T8s, the basement has T12s and my T5HO grow light.

[TheMad_Poet]

These two Momotaro plants were started on a shelf where I have 14000K and 6500K+UV-A LED-lights. After couple of sets true leaves were growing plants started to show signs of intumescence. I then moved one of them on the shelf, where I have the fluorescent tube. Picture is taken 6 days after moving the plant on the left. This shows that change in the light can save a suffering plant.


Momotaro test.jpg


Plant on the right was also eventually moved to better light, since I could not let it die.

Sari one more question for you. I am trying to save about half the plants I had started. Some of those seem stunted and not sure if they will ever recover and grow into full size plants. What is your experience in this regard? Is it worth the effort to try to save the best of the ones that were under the leds only. Many seem alright but not sure if they will grow well.

[Sue_CT]

Here we go again! It is just starting. The tips of the leaves turn gray and/or brown, curl over sometimes and get crispy dry. This year I used a brand new bag of soil, MG organic I just bought this week, did not use any basins or anything from past years and put new soil into clean new Solo cups with the seedling to make sure there no chance of contamintion from anything that could mean a disease was causing this. They do not need to be watered. I can tell by the weight of the container. They were watered at transplant time and not since then. There are no insects. Just flecks of soil. What the heck? Moved most to the window, will probably move the rest or maybe leave a coupld under lights just to compare what happens.

2023 tomato seedlings problem with lights? by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152340683@N05/
2023 tomato seedlings problem with lights? by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152340683@N05/
2023 tomato seedlings problem with lights? by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oxKAjd]2023 tomato seedlings problem with lights? by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oxLGZX]2023 tomato seedlings problem with lights? by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oxM144]2023 tomato seedlings problem with lights? by

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oxM14p]2023 tomato seedlings problem with lights? by

This is where they are now:

[url=https://flic.kr/p/2oxFNQG]2023 tomato seedlings problem with lights? by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152340683@N05/]

[svalli]

Sari one more question for you. I am trying to save about half the plants I had started. Some of those seem stunted and not sure if they will ever recover and grow into full size plants. What is your experience in this regard? Is it worth the effort to try to save the best of the ones that were under the leds only. Many seem alright but not sure if they will grow well.

I have been able to save some really bad looking seedlings, by getting them early into the greenhouse to get natural light. I have a small tent greenhouse, which fits inside the big one and then I do not need to heat so large area.

In 2015 these except the small one in the back recovered and produced tomatoes, but were later than the ones, which grew without problems. Picture was taken mid April and I usually plant to permanent containers in the greenhouse in end of May.

PSX_20230503_225337.jpg

Sari

[TheMad_Poet]

Here we go again! It is just starting. The tips of the leaves turn gray and/or brown, curl over sometimes and get crispy dry. This year I used a brand new bag of soil, MG organic I just bought this week, did not use any basins or anything from past years and put new soil into clean new Solo cups with the seedling to make sure there no chance of contamintion from anything that could mean a disease was causing this. They do not need to be watered. I can tell by the weight of the container. They were watered at transplant time and not since then. There are no insects. Just flecks of soil. What the heck? Moved most to the window, will probably move the rest or maybe leave a coupld under lights just to compare what happens.

Sue, you did the right thing getting them away from the LED's. I ignored my early warning signs cause I didnt know. The seed leaves showed the 1st damage, then the others. When the leaves started wilting I was puzzled, cause the containers felt heavy enuff, but I watered any way which only compounded the problem with overwatered plants. Went back to 100% fluros for the time being. Some say that peppers are not affected, but mine were, but to a much lesser extent. I have some with discolored leaves. The lack of UV and other wavelengths can cause magnesium deficiencies according to some. So I fed all my toms and peps that were under the LED's some CalMag. Sprayed the leaves as a foilar, then once the soil dried out, watered with calmag. Weather warming enuff finally to get things in the greenhouse later today. Will start experimenting soon with extras under LED and fluros together. Sari has had good luck with that set up.