air layering tomato main stem?

[Barmaley]

This is my practically first year of growing tomatoes. Been a complete noob I planted some (in this case early girl) in a very small container (homedepot bucket) with homedepot top soil. The plant was doing really well and at this time is 4.5' tall and has several fruits about 2 inch in size. Few days ago another disaster happened: I got severe septoria on her bottom leaves. After I removed the leaves it currently has half the stem naked without leaves. So, firstly I need to repot and I was advised to use Al's 5-1-1 mix instead of potting soil and second I would like to get rid of useless bottom 3' of stem. I am contemplating on using air layering method applying it to the main and only stem (all suckers were removed) and then to but the bottom. I know very little about biology and tomatoes as well I don't know what I don't know as Rumsfeld once said. What potential problems do you guys see with the plan and what would you suggest?

[MissS]

Personally I would not attempt to air layer this plant while it is setting fruit. You want your plant to put it's energy into fruit production and not shift it back into vegetative growth. You can go ahead and repot it but then what I would do is to try to plant it deeper than it was and if possible just coil the stem on the surface of the soil and it then may or may not root itself. Using Al's mix is fine but will cause you to have more work watering and feeding this plant.
Greenhouse growers always remove the foliage below their ripe fruit and can have 6-8 feet of bare stem. They just lower the plant so that the stems coil on the ground. There is no harm in having bare stems. In fact, it helps to increase air flow through your plant which reduces the likelihood of disease. Many of us remove the lower leaves as the plants mature.

[Barmaley]

Patti,

Thank you very much for your advice! It appears that there so many facts I suddenly need to learn that without forum help I would be overwhelmed! I am really fascinated about idea of making coil of a bare stem. Is the stem flexible enough that I can coil it without risk to brake it? If I could coil it it would make my life much easier since I can repot it in a larger pot without disturbing its roots during fruit production. I will put it deeper with fresh and better soil on the top. My understanding was that I have to get rid of current root system since it is a useless cheapest top soil without nutrients and not suitable for roots breathing. The easiest solution would be just to add a wider ring of some sort to support more soil in the top of current homedepot bucket to add another 10 gallons of soil. If it make the plant to develop new roots and "forget" about useless lower roots and they will not start rotting then it would be simplest solution. I need to do it right away since the leaves of the plant is definitely more yellow and not the same intense green as all other my plants besides few which are in the same buckets.

[MissS]

You hit the nail on the head. It is not always so easy to coil the stem and you have to be very very careful. Each plant is different as to how much it can bend. They will break if stressed too much which then kills your top half of the plant. Be gentle with those stems and do not force them. You can always come back a few days later and move them some more.

Here is another possible solution. It's in a top soil and not a potting soil? Perhaps that is the issue. Would it be possible to just place this plant in the ground and plant the stem in a trench horizontally? This way the plant would be shortened and the stem buried so it can grow more roots on it's own. Your plant will orientate itself to grow upright after it has been planted sideways.

Your other plants, what type of soil are they planted in?

[slugworth]

Hill it up like potatoes

[Barmaley]

I love the idea of coiling but at a close examination I concluded that it would not be remotely possible: the stem is so much thick and rigid that I can not bend it an inch!

I guess the solution would be to hill it up. I am trying to borrow your previous years of experience since I have no clue what will happen if I will make a big hill of good soil. I saw many youtube videos about air layering and they were very convincing that developing new roots is not a problem. However, everybody does it to clone tomatoes, not to salvage main stem. I would like to learn what will happen with old roots after new roots will develop: will they day or will they still work in tandem with new roots? Will it be safe to cut old roots out after two weeks or it will kill the plant or at least causes a stress to the plant? If the plan would be to keep the old roots then I would need to built a structure above the bucket which will be very ugly, If after a couple of weeks I could transplant the plant in a new and bigger pot it probably will be better.

Another problem which I was not prepared was the the tomatoes on my porch grow violently. First I bought seedlings at Lowe's that then read the description. According to it some may grow 10-12 foot which makes me paranoid! Then another issue - at first I was buying "a tomato plant" and was trying to make sure that I will get a red and a yellow. Then I found that there are many varieties and they taste differently. Then I decided to try them all and bout close to 30 plants. First few weeks everything was under control and then they started getting bushy and they invaded complete space at the porch. Now I thing they don't have enough light since the obstruct each other. To add to excitement I not fight with septoria and at the same time I realized that top soil is not too good for container and I need to repot. To add to my befuddlement I figure out that if I would be able to get a bushel of tomatoes at the end they will cast me about $10-15 per pound LOL. You may understand why easy solution to my repoting project can same me time to fight new issues which I am sure will arise soon.

[slugworth]

I have a hill against cement blocks and put a plant in that.
It is doing better than the planted ones.

[MissS]

Welcome to the addiction of tomato growing...

Rooting tomatoes is extremely easy to do. They will grow roots wherever the stem meets the soil. I would not bother stressing you plant by removing the old roots. The plant will either regrow them or abort them on it's own. You will find out what it did when you pull the plant at the end of the season. Of course you can experiment and try to air layer the plant and then remove the old roots. All that you have to lose is a few tomatoes and you seem to have plenty. Use this first year to learn and try some things out.

30 plants on your patio/deck/balcony is a LOT of plants to deal with. You need to start pruning your plants by removing what we call the suckers. These are the new branches that grow out of the side of the main stem at each leaf node. (You can even root these suckers very easily to make new plants. Hmm, maybe this is an option for you sick tomato. However, with so many plants do you really need another?) Pruning the plants grown in tight situations is a MUST to allow air flow between the plants otherwise you will be dealing with a lot of disease. You can also remove all of the leaves below any set tomatoes. This will help to open up the plants and also keep them in check. You are going to need to help your plants by giving them some support. At this point I would use some kind of stake. If possible, I would move some of these off of the porch and into a brighter position.

Take a look around the forum and see how others are growing, supporting and pruning their tomatoes. There are some great ideas that may help you, probably more so for next year.

[Barmaley]

I have an enormous amount of dears and squirrels other wise I would grow them on a back yard where I have over an acre of land. I do have very tall trees and I am thinking about moving some of the pots in a portion of the roof in a part of the building with not too steel slope. Then the issue would be how to water them?

I hope not to loose this specific plant which is an early girl. I found that all local stores have their seedlings in stock which make me think that they should be popular in me area (North East PA - I was not able to figure out what my zone is - it is on the list of things to do). My goal for this year to try and compare different varieties to decide which worth the efforts and next year to limit to 4-5 pots with the best ones.

I thought that I was removing suckers very well until I suddenly found that several plants like red torch developed foot and a half long and thick suckers in just free to four days which I was not controlling them while I was reading and handling basil which suppose to expel bugs. I attribute that prolific growth to the fact that I as experiment put a fish head under the plant. The second red torch which was deprived the fish privilege is not as fast growing. Then I read that some people do not remove suckers if they have enough airspace since suckers still can product fruits and make a back up for propagation in case if something goes wrong (and I am prepared that something will go wrong ...)

Patti, it if feel that it would be safe to cut the bottom of the roots after the air layering is performed this is the way I think I am going to undertake. If there is something I need to know ahead of time I would appreciate if you guys will share it will me!

Since you guys have a lot of experience could you list in the order of importance what possible next issues I should experience with my new hobby?

[Nan6b]

Hi,
My two cents is as follows.
1. Your current roots are not "bad", in any way. They're fine roots. They may not be growing in the best soil. You don't need new roots. Different soil may be better. Or stick with the soil you have, and add stuff your plants need.
2. Osmocote extended release fertilizer 14-14-14 is an easy way to feed your plants. You work it in to the top 2-3" of soil. It looks like little balls.
3. If you air-layer the plant and cut it off from the bottom, you will set the plant's development back severely. If you want tomatoes, I'd suggest against it. The plant may look a little weird to you with that bare stem, but it is a good thing to do, having several feet of bare stem at the bottom.
4. Re-potting is a fine idea if you wish. Bigger pot will mean more tomatoes, and less stress on the plant.
5. The more crowded your plants are, the more likely they'll get diseased. Since you don't have more space, thin out each plant by taking of the little side shoots as they start. Leave only 1-3 main branches. Tie them up to stakes so the plants aren't laying on each other. It's better if no plant touches any other. You may or may not get quite as many tomatoes but your plants will be healthier and less prone to disease.
6. Don't splash dirt & water on the leaves when you water. Do whatever you can to prevent dirt from getting up on the leaves. Disease spreads this way. If you can put down something on top of the soil to prevent splashing, do it. Grass clippings are good (if they haven't been sprayed with anything).

Nan

[Barmaley]

Thank you Nan,

1. How much of Osmocote extended release fertilizer 14-14-14 I need? My Lowe's has 2 lb pack - will it be enough?

2. "Your current roots are not "bad", in any way. " How do you know? Is there a way to check?(Just edited a typo)

3. Is moving my current plant into larger pot without disturbing root ball of current state is a good idea? I have two options: to add commercially bought potting soil or use Al's 5-1-1 mix for new roots. I read that 511 requires a lot of care but are better for the plants, at the same time potting mix should be OK for the plants as well. Is half old soil and half 511 is a good combination? What would you do?

[Nan6b]

1. Two pounds ought to do it. Look at the dosing instructions; each pot won't take very much.
2. There isn't any such thing as a bad root. I suppose if they're infested with bugs they could be bad, but still, the roots are good & it's just the bugs that are bad.
3. You can move to a larger pot. You can knock some of the old dirt off if it will come loose. This will mean they're in less of the poor soil and more of the good. If you wish, you could even gently run a hose over the root ball so you can get rid of more of the poor soil. The roots can take a little jostling. What would I do? Nothing. It's got a disease, but you're already trimming the infected leaves. You're gonna have a long bare stem, no matter what. It's probably going to get longer. The plant will grow and more leaves will be infected from the bottom, and you'll pull them off too. Good soil is a good thing, but tomatoes will grow in pure clay or crappy soil too.

[peebee]

About coiling: I've done it successfully on several plants this year that were getting too tall & I found the secret--only attempt it after the plant is deeply watered and well saturated. Then you can ever so carefully lower the plant from the top while supporting the bottom branch. Having someone help is great too for the first try. Never force the stem down; easy does it. I was sweating bullets the first time cuz I never succeeded in the past. The stems were too brittle & I was scared. Most YouTube videos I watched never mentioned watering beforehand, they just showed how they untied the top & wrapped the bare stems on the ground. I just happened to watch a video from overseas that said they did it on their farms only after a good rain the day before.
I prune to a single stem & only do this after I have at least 2 ft or more of bare stem. And only if I can't reach the top of the plant anymore. Of course it goes without saying that the plant is well supported either on the side via stakes or above on beams or both.
And another thing: one of my plants fell over in the wind & was cut almost all the way thru at the soil level. I wrapped it up like I would for any wound and it was totally ok! I removed about 3 tomatoes just to alleviate the stress on the plant but it's doing great. So I know if I accidentally snap a plant while coiling in the future, I might be able to save it.
So while I'm not advocating you should do this I just wanted to share this extra tip as it is rarely noted about hydrating first. Good luck to you whatever you try! So much to learn