2022/2023 variety questions and maybe answers

[Whwoz]

Lindy's Little Krim is indeed a Black Krim variant. It's development is detailed in a thread either here or at TV, more inclined to think it's at TV.

[Toomanymatoes]

If anyone is interested in the list I am using to track information on these varieties, I will embed it here. I cannot guarantee that what I recorded is correct, but I try my best. Feel free to make any corrections or fill in any blanks. I would greatly appreciate it.



cherry = 1.5oz or less (35g or <)
cocktail = 1.5 to 2 oz (35 to 55g)
saladette = 2 to 4 oz (55 to 115g)
slicer - 0.25lb or greater (115g+)

I should have a beefsteak category, but haven't done that since I record the actual size. It would be 0.75lb or > (350g+).

[MissS]

@Toomanymatoes That's a great list and it's so nice of you to share this with everyone. If you post it in it's own thread in the Tomato Talk forum, I will make it a sticky so that people can easily find it.

[Toomanymatoes]

@Toomanymatoes That's a great list and it's so nice of you to share this with everyone. If you post it in it's own thread in the Tomato Talk forum, I will make it a sticky so that people can easily find it.

Let me work on it a bit more and I would certainly be happy to do that. My only concern though is that the file is located on my Google drive. So, not sure what happens if that goes defunct. Shouldn't be a big problem, but it's always a consideration.

[MissS]

@Toomanymatoes That's a great list and it's so nice of you to share this with everyone. If you post it in it's own thread in the Tomato Talk forum, I will make it a sticky so that people can easily find it.

Let me work on it a bit more and I would certainly be happy to do that. My only concern though is that the file is located on my Google drive. So, not sure what happens if that goes defunct. Shouldn't be a big problem, but it's always a consideration.

I would most definitely suggest that you protect it so that others can't modify it. I wouldn't want someone's temper or mean sense of humor to play havoc with all of your hard work.

[Tormato]

100 Pudov grew as a large, somewhat pleated, piriform for me, and that is my saved seed that you have. I've seen descriptions of piriform and oxheart. Oxheart can mean piriform, and can mean basically the opposite shape (wide shoulders narrowing to the blossom end). I haven't seen a picture, yet, of 100 Pudov.

I'd like to hear input on Barlow Jap. I don't know if the person who named it is still around. But, the name is insulting to some people. Barlow Japanese would be a much better name. But, the one who named it should make the decision on a name change, if possible.

When I have time, I'll look through the entire list.

[Toomanymatoes]

@Toomanymatoes That's a great list and it's so nice of you to share this with everyone. If you post it in it's own thread in the Tomato Talk forum, I will make it a sticky so that people can easily find it.

Let me work on it a bit more and I would certainly be happy to do that. My only concern though is that the file is located on my Google drive. So, not sure what happens if that goes defunct. Shouldn't be a big problem, but it's always a consideration.

I would most definitely suggest that you protect it so that others can't modify it. I wouldn't want someone's temper or mean sense of humor to play havoc with all of your hard work.

Sure, I can do that. I keep an original and only share the copy. So, not a huge concern, but thank you!

[Toomanymatoes]

100 Pudov grew as a large, somewhat pleated, piriform for me, and that is my saved seed that you have. I've seen descriptions of piriform and oxheart. Oxheart can mean piriform, and can mean basically the opposite shape (wide shoulders narrowing to the blossom end). I haven't seen a picture, yet, of 100 Pudov.

I'd like to hear input on Barlow Jap. I don't know if the person who named it is still around. But, the name is insulting to some people. Barlow Japanese would be a much better name. But, the one who named it should make the decision on a name change, if possible.

When I have time, I'll look through the entire list.

I have not been that concise with the descriptions to be honest. This was only for my own use originally. You are correct though, I label most heartish shaped tomatoes as oxhearts and they may not actually be traditional oxheart shaped. I started labeling them as blunt and pear-shaped oxhearts, but I have not done that for all of the listings. Some of that information was older and from the 2021 swap, so I may not have updated some information as I transitioned to "better" descriptions.

Here are some pics of 100 Pudov I stole from the internet. Clearly, they are all different shapes, but I am pretty sure you are correct in that it is supposed to be piriform.

[

100_Pudov-01-MMMM_2022.jpg

100_Pudov-02-MMMM_2022.jpg

100_Pudov-03-MMMM_2022.jpg

[WoodSprite]

Ok, finally went through everything. Here are a few more I could not find some, or no, info on:


Lindy's Little Krim (Black Krim variant?)

I sent in seeds for Lindy's Little Krim. (Others may have also.) I got the seeds directly from Lindy from Canada. (LindyAdele is her screen name.) She found a sport on her Black Krim plant that produced uniform golfball-sized fruits and collected seeds. She has been growing it since then and says it's always the same so it was a sport, not a hybrid when she collected the seeds. She had an offer for seeds here and at TV for seeds. You should be able to find her posts by searching the name or even just "Little Krim".

Here are Lindy's Little Krim tomatoes and other varieties from my garden on a serving platter. Most were smaller than golfball-size for me but I grew them in our new field that has poor soil.

IMG_6204-labeled.jpg

[WoodSprite]

Korichnevvy Rebristyy is regular leaved.

IMG_6056-Bed 9 - Korichnevyy Rebristyy Tomato.JPG

[WoodSprite]

Hello! Not New just hit and miss because of family commitments. From SW Illinois! Yes sadly, I am old school with the sharpie.All varieties are Grown by me here. Most are Southern Heirlooms. Yes, Jesse Saylor is a beautiful pink tomato,RL,quite productive and delicious. I received seeds last year from the MMMM. Will grow again!
Very sorry so late to answer.

Thanks, @Gabby1. According to old posts, mamadisalvo sent in the seeds for the previous MMMM. The seeds I received were from you. Thanks for sharing them and thanks for the information.

Your labeling method was perfect. I just mentioned it because out of the seeds that I received, yours were the only ones that were in bags of that size and thickness and all had the nice, easily readable writing on them. I thought if someone received a different variety in that packaging and knew who sent them, it would tell me who sent the Jesse Saylor seeds so I knew who to ask. I received several varieties that you shared. Thanks for sharing them!

[Toomanymatoes]

Ok, finally went through everything. Here are a few more I could not find some, or no, info on:


Lindy's Little Krim (Black Krim variant?)

I sent in seeds for Lindy's Little Krim. (Others may have also.) I got the seeds directly from Lindy from Canada. (LindyAdele is her screen name.) She found a sport on her Black Krim plant that produced uniform golfball-sized fruits and collected seeds. She has been growing it since then and says it's always the same so it was a sport, not a hybrid when she collected the seeds. She had an offer for seeds here and at TV for seeds. You should be able to find her posts by searching the name or even just "Little Krim".

Here are Lindy's Little Krim tomatoes and other varieties from my garden on a serving platter. Most were smaller than golfball-size for me but I grew them in our new field that has poor soil.

IMG_6204-labeled.jpg

Korichnevvy Rebristyy is regular leaved.

IMG_6056-Bed 9 - Korichnevyy Rebristyy Tomato.JPG

Great! Thank you!

I probably should search the forums more thoroughly for info on varieties.

[Tormato]

100 Pudov grew as a large, somewhat pleated, piriform for me, and that is my saved seed that you have. I've seen descriptions of piriform and oxheart. Oxheart can mean piriform, and can mean basically the opposite shape (wide shoulders narrowing to the blossom end). I haven't seen a picture, yet, of 100 Pudov.

I'd like to hear input on Barlow Jap. I don't know if the person who named it is still around. But, the name is insulting to some people. Barlow Japanese would be a much better name. But, the one who named it should make the decision on a name change, if possible.

When I have time, I'll look through the entire list.

I have not been that concise with the descriptions to be honest. This was only for my own use originally. You are correct though, I label most heartish shaped tomatoes as oxhearts and they may not actually be traditional oxheart shaped. I started labeling them as blunt and pear-shaped oxhearts, but I have not done that for all of the listings. Some of that information was older and from the 2021 swap, so I may not have updated some information as I transitioned to "better" descriptions.

Here are some pics of 100 Pudov I stole from the internet. Clearly, they are all different shapes, but I am pretty sure you are correct in that it is supposed to be piriform.

[100_Pudov-01-MMMM_2022.jpg100_Pudov-02-MMMM_2022.jpg100_Pudov-03-MMMM_2022.jpg

The 100 Pudov that I grew had basically all of those shapes. Many were like the second tomato from the right, in the top pic, being fat, slightly pleated and piriform.

I know your data is mostly for your own use, and your gardening results. But, is it possible to have a range for the DTMs.

As an example, on many of the varieties that you sent in to the MMMM, you have say 80 days listed, which is what you observe.

Here, that variety may be in the 72-75 day range for a typical year. And, I only gauge DTM when a plant sets and produces a fruit on the first blooming flower. If that one drops, DTM will likely be set back 5 days minimum. Perhaps you could get input from others on DTM, as researching varieties may take too much time and not be accurate. Even taking your single figure and having another number, about 6 days less, might work, say 75-80 days. The 2nd number would always be what you observe.

I ask, because many people requested early to mid season varieties and 80 days may mean late to them. Little do they know that an unfamiliar variety may be earlier than they think.

[Toomanymatoes]

100 Pudov grew as a large, somewhat pleated, piriform for me, and that is my saved seed that you have. I've seen descriptions of piriform and oxheart. Oxheart can mean piriform, and can mean basically the opposite shape (wide shoulders narrowing to the blossom end). I haven't seen a picture, yet, of 100 Pudov.

I'd like to hear input on Barlow Jap. I don't know if the person who named it is still around. But, the name is insulting to some people. Barlow Japanese would be a much better name. But, the one who named it should make the decision on a name change, if possible.

When I have time, I'll look through the entire list.

I have not been that concise with the descriptions to be honest. This was only for my own use originally. You are correct though, I label most heartish shaped tomatoes as oxhearts and they may not actually be traditional oxheart shaped. I started labeling them as blunt and pear-shaped oxhearts, but I have not done that for all of the listings. Some of that information was older and from the 2021 swap, so I may not have updated some information as I transitioned to "better" descriptions.

Here are some pics of 100 Pudov I stole from the internet. Clearly, they are all different shapes, but I am pretty sure you are correct in that it is supposed to be piriform.

[100_Pudov-01-MMMM_2022.jpg100_Pudov-02-MMMM_2022.jpg100_Pudov-03-MMMM_2022.jpg

The 100 Pudov that I grew had basically all of those shapes. Many were like the second tomato from the right, in the top pic, being fat, slightly pleated and piriform.

I know your data is mostly for your own use, and your gardening results. But, is it possible to have a range for the DTMs.

As an example, on many of the varieties that you sent in to the MMMM, you have say 80 days listed, which is what you observe.

Here, that variety may be in the 72-75 day range for a typical year. And, I only gauge DTM when a plant sets and produces a fruit on the first blooming flower. If that one drops, DTM will likely be set back 5 days minimum. Perhaps you could get input from others on DTM, as researching varieties may take too much time and not be accurate. Even taking your single figure and having another number, about 6 days less, might work, say 75-80 days. The 2nd number would always be what you observe.

I ask, because many people requested early to mid season varieties and 80 days may mean late to them. Little do they know that an unfamiliar variety may be earlier than they think.

That is a very good point. Honestly, much of the data out there on the internet simply states early, mid or late etc. I often will just change that to a number. I don't know why I do that, but I started with actual days and just kept it at that. Basically, early would be 65 days, mid-early 70, mid 80 (but more like 75 to 85) and late would be 90+. I know there are gaps there, but as you mentioned it is variable so, for me, it is just implied that it also could be +/- 5 days or so.

I don't mind revising it to be more useful. Would it be better to go with early, mid and late? or a day range? Although, I was always under the assumption that the DTM was the days from transplanting a seedling. At least, that is what I record it as.

I actually do not record the actual dates for each variety from my own personal experience. I suppose I could, but it would get messy for me really fast as I would probably record from first blush and onward.

[habitat-gardener]

....Basically, early would be 65 days, mid-early 70, mid 80 (but more like 75 to 85) and late would be 90+. I know there are gaps there, but as you mentioned it is variable so, for me, it is just implied that it also could be +/- 5 days or so.....

I use the following
early <70 days
mid 70-80 days
late >80 days
In my climate, the later and larger the variety, the less likely I am to get anything from it.

but this is what Sandhill Preservation uses
Very Early - 55 days or less
Early - 55-70 days
Mid-season - 70-85 days
Late - usually over 85 days

[Tormato]

My own scale is...

extra early - 55 or less
early - 56 to 69
mid - 70 to 79
late - 80+

[rxkeith]

on the garlic bulbils that i received.

any info on what variety. there looks to be two, maybe 3 kinds.
there are a few large bulbils, and some smaller tear drop shaped
just curious.

nuther question

the multiplier shallot seeds, bower sent in.
best time to plant is when?
i expect they bulb up the second year from seed.
what can i look forward to as to size, and flavor.

i guess that was more than one question.

keith

[Tormato]

on the garlic bulbils that i received.

any info on what variety. there looks to be two, maybe 3 kinds.
there are a few large bulbils, and some smaller tear drop shaped
just curious.

nuther question

the multiplier shallot seeds, bower sent in.
best time to plant is when?
i expect they bulb up the second year from seed.
what can i look forward to as to size, and flavor.

i guess that was more than one question.

keith

I'll let Bower answer the details.

But, she originally called them diverse shallots. I don't know if everything is still in the mix from a few years ago, as there were all kinds of heights, different colors, different clumping characteristics, etc... That's what may be in store for you. Also, I have no idea on overwintering hardiness.

The garlic, I think, were unknown varieties. But, I'll see if there are any notes on them. There also might be something in the spoiler alert.

[Toomanymatoes]

....Basically, early would be 65 days, mid-early 70, mid 80 (but more like 75 to 85) and late would be 90+. I know there are gaps there, but as you mentioned it is variable so, for me, it is just implied that it also could be +/- 5 days or so.....

I use the following
early <70 days
mid 70-80 days
late >80 days
In my climate, the later and larger the variety, the less likely I am to get anything from it.

but this is what Sandhill Preservation uses
Very Early - 55 days or less
Early - 55-70 days
Mid-season - 70-85 days
Late - usually over 85 days

My own scale is...

extra early - 55 or less
early - 56 to 69
mid - 70 to 79
late - 80+

Well, I am not quite sure what I should do here. I think I was more or less following what Sandhill indicates. Is there somewhere that is preferred to be used as a standard reference? Tatiana's? I could not find anywhere on Tatiana's site how she defines maturity. Maybe Craig LeHoullier's book? I need to look through it and see.

I think much of the information I collect comes from Tatiana's, Cultive ta Rue and Tomatofifou since they have very comprehensive lists and also contain all the information I want. All three of them just list maturity as early/mid/late more or less. I can just list it as per the source and indicate which source it is from.

I was hoping to start going through the list tonight.

[Tormato]

....Basically, early would be 65 days, mid-early 70, mid 80 (but more like 75 to 85) and late would be 90+. I know there are gaps there, but as you mentioned it is variable so, for me, it is just implied that it also could be +/- 5 days or so.....

I use the following
early <70 days
mid 70-80 days
late >80 days
In my climate, the later and larger the variety, the less likely I am to get anything from it.

but this is what Sandhill Preservation uses
Very Early - 55 days or less
Early - 55-70 days
Mid-season - 70-85 days
Late - usually over 85 days

My own scale is...

extra early - 55 or less
early - 56 to 69
mid - 70 to 79
late - 80+

Well, I am not quite sure what I should do here. I think I was more or less following what Sandhill indicates. Is there somewhere that is preferred to be used as a standard reference? Tatiana's? I could not find anywhere on Tatiana's site how she defines maturity. Maybe Craig LeHoullier's book? I need to look through it and see.

I think much of the information I collect comes from Tatiana's, Cultive ta Rue and Tomatofifou since they have very comprehensive lists and also contain all the information I want. All three of them just list maturity as early/mid/late more or less. I can just list it as per the source and indicate which source it is from.

I was hoping to start going through the list tonight.

Don't worry about it. There are different DTM listings for just about any variety.

The one thing that I suggest adding, is the extra early (55 DTMs or less) classification. It's basically been the standard for a few decades. If you, yourself, don't get a harvest that early, use other sources where at least two of them agree that it's a 55 DTM tomato.

On a side note, if I used Sandhill's scale, I would have no late tomatoes. Opalka, Andes Horn, Aunt Gertie's Gold, and Lillian's Yellow Heirloom come in at 83 to 84 days, for me, the latest tomatoes in my garden over the past 15 years.

Of course, this is using my standard of the first blossom on the plant setting and maturing fruit. If that blossom doesn't set, or something happens where it didn't make it to maturity, then I'm looking at maybe 88-90 DTM.