paying the rent

[bower]

May not be the favorite subject, but I think we should start a discussion about this now. Rajun has shouldered the burden of creating this site, and running it, and all of the costs so far. And I know we're all very grateful! But I don't want it to go on and on, piling up cost onto his shoulders, including hismany hours of amazing work to make this all happen. A sustainable community pays for itself. So the question is, how is the best way to do that?
Personally I am in favor of a limited amount of advertising, which can be done in such a way it interferes the least with the content we create. It may be premature to look for advertisers at this stage, but it is one way of paying our costs going forward.
Subscription is another option.
Donations are a third option.
I would prefer the advertising route for a couple of reasons:
1) it is a stable revenue stream (vs donations for example) which can be tailored to meet costs if they change
2) It doesn't exclude anyone who can't afford a subscription
What say ye, on the subject of paying our rent?

[wildcat62]

I'm open to it. Truthfully I have no idea what a website cost are???

[Rajun Gardener]

Thanks for bringing it up! I'm working on that but I'm getting it set up right first.

I have a few ideas that should work and not put pressure on members to support the site.

1. I'll make an Amazon Affiliate account for a website store and get a small percentage of sales(2-5%) when it's used with no charge to the buyer. We can add any items we like and even if you buy something that's not in the store the site still gets the commission. It's a win for all and will help.

2. I thought about putting in a Vendors forum and charge a small fee to advertise. It's gonna be a private forum that only vendors can post ads in. It should be helpful for members and vendors with a bonus of supporting the site.

3. I want to put a Paypal donation link somewhere so if anyone feels like helping they can.


I'm like everyone else, I don't like pop-up ads or ads that bug me when I'm browsing. I'll try to find ad software so I can place ads either in the header, footer or the sidebar of post but none in the post itself.

Opinions????

[worth1]

I dont mind static adds but animated one kill me.

[Sue_CT]

There should probably be some discussion of how people who place ads should be treated and what they should expect. One of the things that was helpful at TV was discussions of which places were reliable to do business with and which ones people had had a lot of problems with, dishonest sellers, sham sites and such. Will anyone look into the sites that advertise? Can people discuss issues and problems they have with sellers that advertise here? I think it might be a good idea to come up with some clear guidelines before issues like that come up.

[Rajun Gardener]

I agree, that has to be done. I haven't thought that far ahead yet. What do you propose? I could take applications and have them wait a day for approval then make a poll or start a topic in a Seed Vendors thread to let members chime it.

OR I can ask vendors we already know and post here if they're interested. Another option would be to solicit preferred vendors and start a forum topic of that vendor so everyone can post and ask questions or give feedback.

I'm open to suggestions!

[zendog]

I'd suggest two things based on what I know from other sites.

I'm a member over at growingfruit.org (great site if you are interested in fruit) and the person who created it asks for donations as needed. He started the site after Houzz bought GW and it was quickly popular. I don't remember when he asked for donations first, but when he did he quickly had a good amount of money and said he was good for a while. He put that aside to pay all the bills and then when that was running low, he asked for donations again. I think it was a year and a half after the first call for donations or so. This approach lets him cover the costs as needed and also allows him to deal with rising costs. He uses the Amazon cloud services for hosting images since there are so many and they are large and that has been the biggest cost and has risen faster than expected. When he put out the call in a week or so he had enough to cover costs for a while. So there is no set time, it is more like an occasional fund drive when the kitty is getting low. When people the value they get from the site, they seem to be quite generous if they are able.

I also belong to a forum for people who keep tropical fish. They have a vendor section (each vendor gets their own "category" where only they can post). I believe there is a fee they pay to be vendor on the site, and then some of them use it a fair amount to announce group buys, discounts, new arrivals, etc. and others don't seem to use it. What I like about this approach is that you get things that are beneficial or at least interesting to the people on the site so it is really content, not just revenue.

Both of these should be fairly low effort for the admin, whereas ads can become a chore to keep selling. People want to promote one thing for a few months and then nothing the next, or they want to change their ad, and it can become a time suck. You can turn it over to a service for someone else to sell and administer, but then you don't control it.,

[Gardadore]

From the beginning when Rajan said he had acquired this site I said I was willing to pay dues or a fee if necessary. I belong to another gardening site which charges $20 a year to access it ad free and I believe gives members access to some forums closed to non payers. Thus the site uses both ads (incredibly annoying if you allow them) which are present to non payers and dues to avoid them. I will happily pay an annual fee to keep this site afloat as I do for other sites and local organizations like my herb club.
I am open to whatever decision the majority makes but asking for donations when money is needed seems tedious to me. A set fee at least guarantees a certain amount to run things. Heaven knows Rajun or anyone running this site deserves the peace of mind that there are guaranteed funds each year.
Having a Market section where people pay so much per month to sell items has also been used on the other Gardening site I belong to. Sometimes people get a good price on bulk items and break them down to sell. I remember one member getting access to 5 gallon Grow Bags with Coir which we could buy for a great price. It is true this is not guaranteed income as a seller pays monthly and can quit whenever but it helps!
Just occurred to me: How do you set it up to remain tax free so the administrator doesn’t need to deal with that personally. Do you have to set up a special account as a non profit? Then maybe this brings the possibility of a Market or ads into question. Can you do that with a non profit?
You mentioned Amazon. Part of my purchase costs go to a local nonprofit. How do we get listed as a nonprofit to qualify for something like that? This site should certainly fit the category of educational.
Lots to mull over!

[bower]

Thanks for bringing it up! I'm working on that but I'm getting it set up right first.

I have a few ideas that should work and not put pressure on members to support the site.

1. I'll make an Amazon Affiliate account for a website store and get a small percentage of sales(2-5%) when it's used with no charge to the buyer. We can add any items we like and even if you buy something that's not in the store the site still gets the commission. It's a win for all and will help.

2. I thought about putting in a Vendors forum and charge a small fee to advertise. It's gonna be a private forum that only vendors can post ads in. It should be helpful for members and vendors with a bonus of supporting the site.

3. I want to put a Paypal donation link somewhere so if anyone feels like helping they can.


I'm like everyone else, I don't like pop-up ads or ads that bug me when I'm browsing. I'll try to find ad software so I can place ads either in the header, footer or the sidebar of post but none in the post itself.

Opinions????

These are all great ideas, afaik! I admit I have no expertise in the advertising, other than pricing some adverts for an organization a few years ago. If it turned out to be a hassle to get advertisers, maybe some of us could pitch in a few hours of work to find some? The other side of advertising, if it's a great site you may find regular sponsors that we're happy with. Ditto vendors forum. Totally agree about no pop ups, and have complete confidence in your judgement how to place so it's not visually interfering with the content.
One thing I'm pretty sure of, is that the more content we have, the higher the costs will go.
Having a donation link is a great idea. But I wouldn't want the site to depend on donation calls when the funds get low. Lets make it as secure as we can, to grow and meet its own costs. 2cents.

[maxjohnson]

Ads and affiliate links won’t work on me. I use Adsguard which blocks ads and strips the tracking from links.

The most convenient for me is some sort of monthly subscription. I’m not a fan of PayPal, but since they have essentially a monopoly I don’t mind using them. Best I can do now is $1 a month, but annual fee works too. However you will isolate yourself and reduce traffic if it’s made mandatory.

There are services that collect donations for content creators, unfortunately I don’t think websites qualifies.

Also you definitely should sign up for Brave Rewards: https://creators.brave.com/

And I recommend the forum members to use Brave browser on their phone (or desktop) so they can contribute through it.

55302D5B-6A5B-430F-B05D-63E4DC7A00B0.jpeg

[mikestuff49]

As a business owner, I think we should leave this to Rajun Gardener to decide on his own. I have no objections to any of the suggestions, but, once you take a hobby site and turn it into a commercial site, your tax preparation gets exponentially more complicated. If Rajun is a business owner and already has profit/loss reporting and related IRS stuff already, it's probably just a minor thing. If he works at a job where he reports via W-2, the additional step adds a layer of complication. Just sayin'.

[PlainJane]

Love options 2 and 3!

[Nan6b]

I like the vendor's forum. Only they can post ads, and it might be beneficial all around if folks can ask them on-topic questions about their products. I'm not sure how the Amazon affiliate thing works but it sounds good too.
Nan

[Rajun Gardener]

I like the vendor's forum. Only they can post ads, and it might be beneficial all around if folks can ask them on-topic questions about their products. I'm not sure how the Amazon affiliate thing works but it sounds good too.
Nan

It's just an ad from Amazon, if you use that link to buy anything we get a small percentage of the sale without any cost to the buyer. It's free and costs nothing but it only works if you use the link. The ads won't be all over the page and won't detract from the forum.

I hate ads too, especially those that keep rotating, this will look like a picture and not beg you to click.

[greenthumbomaha]

Why leave it to one funding option?
Have a vendor forum and paypal too, we can catch everyone that way. As-needed funding for improvements would be covered with the emergency paypal option, but not everyone has a paypal account.

Having said that, I have no idea of the cost to park and store data. Are there ways that we can make our post to keep costs down? Offsite storage was mentioned. Perhaps this method can be explained so we can be smart about data use.

-Lisa

[Sue_CT]

People should not be encouraged to use this as a storage place for thier photos. I know some people don't like to use photo hosting sites, but there are free ones, and you can also store them on removable drives and your computer. If you are exceeding the limits on the free storage sites, you are placing that data burdon on this site. It uses a lot of data and the person/people supporting the site end up paying for your photo storage. Again, common sense and common courtesy go a long way.

[Rajun Gardener]

We shouldn't have a problem with images, I'm not saying store all your pics here but don't worry about the bandwidth. I just checked again to make sure. We'll be OK!


Total Bandwidth Provided: unlimited GB
Total Used So Far: 1.860 GB
Estimated Usage For Cycle: 4.435 GB

[MissS]

We shouldn't have a problem with images, I'm not saying store all your pics here but don't worry about the bandwidth. I just checked again to make sure. We'll be OK!


Total Bandwidth Provided: unlimited GB
Total Used So Far: 1.860 GB
Estimated Usage For Cycle: 4.435 GB

Thanks. Good to know.

[Greatgardens]

Subscriber fees would be useful. Some boards have a few perks to encourage subscribing, or can be mandatory "pay to play." Limiting photos and/ or size is also helpful. Ads are fine with me, and most ad blockers can be turned off selectively by their users.

[Shule]

If we end up having ads, I recommend putting them at the bottom, and only the bottom (particularly if they're in posts). They're very unobtrusive that way, but people still see them.

I also recommend making all ads as relevant as possible to the site's subject matter. I mean, not everyone has to go to Google for their ads. You could, in theory, select your own advertisements. I'm sure even some forum members would love to pay you to advertise.

Also, have you thought about having sponsors? See how Craig LeHoullier does it on his website:
https://www.craiglehoullier.com/

That might be easier than regular banner advertising.

I like the Amazon Affiliates thing. But remember, you'll probably have to delete all mention of having talked about it by the time you start doing it.

I wouldn't recommend making it so you have to pay to use the site, nor anything that makes it seem like an exclusive place to be. There are perks to exclusivity, but I think this site has the potential to be very great without it.