A tribute to Tom Wagner

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A tribute to Tom Wagner

#1

Post: # 25095Unread post Shule
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:10 am

Tom Wagner is an amazing plant breeder (of tomatoes and potatoes). I'm sure most of you have heard of him. He's the one who bred Green Zebra (which basically led to all the striped tomatoes of that sort we have today, except for probably Tigerella and tomatoes related to it), but Tom Wagner also bred a whole lot of other tomatoes (and not all of them are well-known).

So, I'm wondering who all here grows Tom Wagner varieties. Which ones do you grow? Where did you get them?

I've grown Fahrenheit Blues and Green Zebra (and tomatoes descended from it, which weren't all bred by him). I'm not really sure what all he has bred, but apparently, he's bred a lot of tomatoes. If you have any really old ones that no one sells anymore, I'd be greatly interested in your story.

-----

This section last updated on 14 July 2020 (Tuesday).

Here are Tom Wagner's tomato varieties we know about so far (about 217 tomatoes); I know he bred a lot more, though; some of these in the list probably aren't stable varieties or even true variety names. (If we make a potato list, it should probably be in a different thread, in a different forum, since this is the Tomato Talk forum).

• 51 32209
• Abracazebra
• Agrafen
• Alki Blue
• Alki Blue-Blood
• Arche Zebra
• Aurora Blue
• Banana Cream (AKA Cream Sausage)
• Beautiful Dreamer
• Beauty Mark
• Beetlejuice
• Belle du College - Join or Die
• Betimes Macbeth
• Beyond Verde Claro
• Big Sky Brandy
• Bing Cherry
• Black Brandywine X Green Zebra F1
• Black Casady
• Black Prince X Cherokee Purple
• Blauer Punkt
• Blue Angel
• Blue Bayou
• Blue Dawg
• Blue Fog
• Blue Green Zebra
• Blue Match
• Blue Pitts
• Blue Streak
• Blue Tears
• Blue Woolly Typ I
• Bluey
• Borghese Vase Roman
• Boxer Rebellion
• Brandywine X Brandy Stripe F1
• Brown Derby Mix
• Brown Flesh
• Butter Apple
• Campari Nuovo
• Capayan
• Casady's Folly
• Casady's Folly X Breeding line
• Cascade Village Blue
• Chadd's Ford
• Chadd's Ford Green
• Chadd's Ford Red
• Chef Hubert
• Chelzee Green
• Cherriots of Fire
• Chile Verde
• Chocolate Blues
• Churra Plum
• Clackamas Blueberry
• Combo Stripe
• Compare to the Sun
• Cote d'Zebra
• Cream Sausage
• Dancing with Smurfs
• Dubreil
• Dwarf Wax
• Early Sue
• Elberta Girl
• Elberta Leeway
• Elma Blue
• Embarrassing tomatoes
• Fahrenheit Blues
• Fildalgo Island
• Flaming Burst
• Flanders Contrast
• Fort Vancouver Yellow Pear
• Garden Sun
• Gateway
• Glacial Till
• Glacial Zebra
• Glacier Green
• Glamour Evergreen
• Go Pack
• Gold 'n Green
• Gold and Green
• Golden Crabapple
• Goldkeeper
• Grappler's Quest
• Green Bell Pepper
• Green Brandy
• Green Flame
• Green Grape (original)
• Green Grape Beyond
• Green Lantern F3A
• Green Lantern Lights
• Green Sausage
• Green Sleeves
• Green Zebra
• Green Zebra (Arizona-Hawaii Strain)
• Green Zebra x Blue, ISSA 2011
• Greenwich
• Gru Vee
• Grungy in the Sky
• Grushovka X F1 (Green Zebra X Sungold)
• Grévy's Green Zebra (I'm not sure which character é represents, but I'm guessing it's é.)
• Guarbecque
• Helsing Junction Blues
• Hipa Gold Dwarf
• Hornblend
• Hyde and Seek
• Knyphausen
• La Roupie
• Lange Ærmer
• Lime Green Salad
• Lizzano OP
• Luckenbach Zebra
• Ma Journée
• Magic Trick
• many Yamali Blue strains
• Matt's Casady
• Matt's Folly
• Matt's Jollies
• Momognahela Epidote
• Momotaro OP
• Mountain Roma X F2 Sun Sugar
• Muckleshoot Zebra
• Muddy Waters
• Musk Zebra
• Nana
• New Green Zebra
• Orange Walk
• Out of the Blue
• Pacific Bluestem
• Pansy Ap
• Pastel Sleeves
• Pele's Fire
• Pennsylvania Catchfly
• Perfect Storm
• Pineapple Blues
• Pink Scrofa
• Polish Nights
• Pomehana Apple
• Pride of Flanders
• Pride of Flanders Woolly
• Primary Colors
• Prince Cherokee Baby
• Prince of Spades
• Princess Powder-Puff
• Quagga Quagga
• Queen Anne
• Raisin Vert
• Red Striped Students
• Roman Gold
• Roman Shades
• Roman Tapestry
• Russian Cossack
• Santa Ana
• Santa Anna
• Savananas
• Schimmeig Creg
• Schimmeig Stoo
• Schimmeig Stoo breeding line
• Schrapnellmine
• Scrofa
• Searching for the Blue Zebra F3
• Seattle's Blue Woolly Mammoth
• Shadow Boxing
• Shadow Boxing #41
• Shadow Boxing (dwarf)
• Shadow Boxing (non-dwarf)
• Shadow Boxing (pointed selection)
• Siberian Tiger
• Sirloin of Zebra
• Sky Reacher
• Sky Reacher Slicer
• Skykomish
• Skyreacher
• Snow Steak
• Soyuz Eleven
• Spring Noir
• Striped Green Bell
• Striped Students
• Striped Students Red
• Stripes of Yore
• Summer Cider
• Sun Spot
• Sunshine Blue
• Sunspot
• Sweet 'N Sour
• Sweet Baboo
• Sweet Casady
• Thompson Seedless Grape
• Three way F-1 hybrid
• Tom's Pink Cherry ISSA
• Treasure Trove
• Troo Glass
• Trunnel Stake
• Turbans Diversity
• Variegated Lange Ærmer (VAL)
• Verde Claro
• Vintage Gates
• Vintage Wine
• Violet Jasper
• Wagner Blue Green
• Watermelon Wine
• White Brandy
• White Water
• Wild Card Blues
• Wild Kingdom
• Woolly Blue Jay
• Woolly Green Zebra
• Woolly Kate Yellow
• Wooly Blue Jay
• Wooly Kate (or Woolly Kate)
• Yellow Striped Students
• Zahl
• Zapotec Brandy
• Zebra Creg
• Zebra Crossing
• Zebra Ezel
• Zebra of a Different Stripe
• Zebra Rita
• Zebra Robeq

Bred or discovered from Tom Wagner's seeds by others, but Tom Wagner is cited in their descriptions:
* Banana Legs
* Favorie de Bretagne
* Grungy in the Sky Bicolor
* Justnya
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#2

Post: # 25096Unread post Shule
Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:27 am

Let's make a list of all his varieties that we know.

I just saw that coincidentally, Indyartist on TV just mentioned these Tom Wagner varieties: "Fort Vancouver Yellow Pear", "Pennsylvania Catchfly", "Santa Anna" and "Sunspot".

Tom Wagner's website lists these striped varieties (well, some aren't exactly varieties, but most are):
Blauer Punkt
Roman Shades
Primary Colors
Roman Tapestry
Roman Gold
Sky Reacher
Abracazebra
Go Pack
Arche Zebra
Pink Scrofa
many Yamali Blue strains
Ma Journée
Hipa Gold Dwarf
Glacial Zebra
Shadow Boxing #41
Chocolate Blues
Striped Students
Casady’s Folly
Guarbecque
51 32209
Embarrassing tomatoes
Hyde and Seek
Schimmeig Stoo breeding line
Casady’s Folly X Breeding line
Agrafen
Combo Stripe
Nana
Vintage Gates
Zebra Ezel
Green Zebra
La Roupie
Three way F-1 hybrid

If you know others, I encourage you to list them in replies. Being striped isn't a requirement for listing them.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#3

Post: # 25126Unread post PNW_D
Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:52 am

Screen captures from Wayback Machine ......

Image

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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#4

Post: # 25177Unread post Shule
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:31 pm

@PNW_D
Awesome. Thanks!

Using that information, I was able to derive the following varieties from the following sources, but there are more that weren't in the archive (the links give descriptions of many of the varieties):

https://web.archive.org/web/20130115052 ... /tomatoes/
Pansy Ap

https://web.archive.org/web/20131020143 ... ex&cPath=1
Chadd's Ford Green
Chadd's Ford Red
Churra Plum
Clakamus Blueberry
Goldkeeper
Russian Cossack

https://web.archive.org/web/20150808110 ... ex&cPath=1
Alki Blue-Blood
Beauty Mark
Beetlejuice
Betimes Macbeth
Big Sky Brandy
Blue Bayou
Blue Dawg
Blue Fog
Cascade Villiage Blue
Primary Colors
Blue Tears
Siberian Tiger
Turbans Diversity
Grévy's Green Zebra
Borghese Vase Roman
Zebra Crossing
Skykomish
Fahrenheit Blues
Stripes of Yore

https://web.archive.org/web/20170416200 ... ex&cPath=1
Verde Claro
Muddy Waters
Blue Pitts
Chocolate Blues
Lizzano OP
Glacial Zebra
Green Brandy

https://web.archive.org/web/20180703020 ... ex&cPath=1
Pink Scrofa
Momotaro OP
Sweet Casady
Shadow Boxing (dwarf)
Chef Hubert
Elberta Leeway

https://web.archive.org/web/20180703020 ... oducts_new
Zebra Robeq
Zebra Creg
Fort Vancouver Yellow Pear

https://web.archive.org/web/20190405105 ... ex&cPath=1
Orange Walk
Sweet 'N Sour

https://web.archive.org/web/20110917194 ... -tomatoes/
Glacier Green
Grappler's Quest
Grungy in the Sky
Knyphausen
Pennsylvania Catchfly
Blue Angel
Blue Streak
Casady's Folly
Chadd's Ford
Chelzee Green
Chile Verde
Compare to the Sun
Dubreil
Fildalgo Island
Glacial Till
Glamour Evergreen
Gold Keeper
Lange Ærmer
Princess Powder-Puff
Queen Anne
Scrofa
Striped Students
Sunshine Blue
Sweet Baboo
Treasure Trove
Zahl
Zebra of a Different Stripe

https://web.archive.org/web/20120209170 ... -tomatoes/
Bing Cherry
Blue Match
Dancing with Smurfs
Gru Vee
Helsing Junction Blues
Momognahela Epidote
Out of the Blue
Perfect Storm
Santa Ana
Schrapnellmine
Shadow Boxing
Sky Reacher
Wild Kingdom

https://web.archive.org/web/20130127082 ... ucts_id=33
Matt's Folly
Red and Yellow Striped Students (I think this is two varieties)
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#5

Post: # 25180Unread post Shule
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:51 pm

Bing Cherry is a pretty well-liked one that I know people had been discussing in the recent past.

Of those we've listed, so far, I've heard of these from various sources:
* Bing Cherry
* Casady's Folly
* Dancing with Smurfs
* Fahrenheit Blues
* Glacial Zebra (I think)
* Green Zebra
* Lizzano (whether or not the OP that he bred)
* Momotaro (not necessarily the OP that he bred, but I've heard of Momotaro)
* Muddy Waters
* Primary Colors
* Shadow Boxing
* Striped Students

Then there's Banana Legs, which Tom Wagner bred, but Mark Reusser discovered it in some mixed seeds. I've heard of that one.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#6

Post: # 25185Unread post Shule
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:11 pm

Tatiana's lists 70 of Tom Wagner's varieties, so far: http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Tom_Wagner
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#7

Post: # 25195Unread post eyegrotom
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:06 pm

@Shule check out mostlytomatomania

Also check Vertiloom seeds
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#8

Post: # 25196Unread post Shule
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:43 pm

Thanks! :)

Here's a Mostly Tomato Mania link with pictures and names: https://mostlytomatomania.blogspot.com/ ... rs_21.html

Here's one with lists of names: https://mostlytomatomania.blogspot.com/ ... omato.html

Here's a link to Vertiloom's Tom Wagner section: https://www.vertiloom.com/en/tomatoes/b ... om-wagner/

I'm going to start editing the list into the opening post, and updating it as we get new ones. That way I don't have to move the list or make mostly redundant lists.

I also discovered Flaming Burst, which is a pear version of Jaune Flammée, or however you spell it: https://awhaley.com/product/flaming-burst/

I'd be highly interested in that one.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#9

Post: # 25268Unread post root_grow
Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:40 pm

@Shule I have 7 Flaming Burst seeds left in the packet from growing it last year. I'd be happy to share a few of them with you. :)

Last year a farmer nearby very generously gave me a bunch of tomatoes so I could get seeds from them, including a few Wagner varieties. One of them was Aurora Blue, which I haven't seen mentioned yet, and a blue and green one I'm pretty sure he said was from Wagner, but I'm not sure if it has no name or he just couldn't remember the name at the time. A few others as well.

Here's Wagner Blue Green on the left, the nameless one on the right. The middle tomato is different, an off type of something the farmer was working on that's related to one of the other ones, all GWR.
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_15bd.jpg
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This year I'm growing Lime Green Salad, Skyreacher, Aurora Blue and Wagner Blue Green. Green Grape is among my favorite tomatoes. Green Zebra is great too of course, but it has ripened too late for me since moving to the NW.

Wagner himself is based in WA, in a very similar climate, so I would expect tomatoes that he did most or all of the work to develop himself to do especially well in my garden. PNW gardens would really benefit from more tomatoes that really thrive here! But when I've researched many varieties, I've found a lot of conflicting information, reports of instability, and confusion about who/what/when/where. I don't mean to offend, I know he has contributed much to the tomatoes we know and love and has created some incredible varieties, and I don't mean to diminish that. I just can't figure out the process or which were carefully curated in his own garden vs stabilized by someone else from unstable seed they received from him vs not stabilized but shared freely anyway.

Maybe it's the standard, but personally I find it troubling when only one person is credited with breeding a particular tomato variety when actually what happened was one person saved seed after crossing varieties, and another person or group of people did all the growing and selecting for years to stabilize something good from that cross - which seems to be the case with several varieties listed here and at least one from the farmer I visited (one he said he developed himself, but I see listed as a Wagner variety all the time). One example is Favorie de Bretagne. It's almost always called a Wagner variety, but as far as I can tell, Wagner himself was never involved in selection after he shared unstable seed. Justyna is another example. They're still good tomatoes that are worth growing, but I really want everyone to get credit where it's due...

For Clackamas Blueberry, Clackamas is the right spelling, not Clakamus. It's named after Clackamas county in Oregon, where that variety was selected.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#10

Post: # 25291Unread post Gardadore
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:56 pm

This is a great thread! I have always heard of Tom Wagner but have grown only Lime Green Salad and Green Zebra. Lime Green Salad was OK but got diseased it would set a lot of flowers but not set that may tomatoes. I have Skykomish and Zebra Rita as new ones for next year.
It is a great idea to pay tribute to different breeders and try to list their varieties in one place. Was wondering if a Tributes Section would make any sense. Then the breeders would be in one place to √ out what varieties they have introduced

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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#11

Post: # 25302Unread post HL2601
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:28 pm

I love this idea of making a comprehensive list of Tom Wagner varieties. One of my most favorite is Lime Green Salad. It produces tons of tart yet sweet saladettes that are just plain tasty. His Dancing with Smurfs is one I grow to give seedlings away to interest kids in growing. Green Zebra of course has such a wonderful following. I would like to grow more 0f his. I admire what he has done.

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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#12

Post: # 25316Unread post MissS
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:49 am

Gardadore wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:56 pm
This is a great thread! I have always heard of Tom Wagner but have grown only Lime Green Salad and Green Zebra. Lime Green Salad was OK but got diseased it would set a lot of flowers but not set that may tomatoes. I have Skykomish and Zebra Rita as new ones for next year.
It is a great idea to pay tribute to different breeders and try to list their varieties in one place. Was wondering if a Tributes Section would make any sense. Then the breeders would be in one place to √ out what varieties they have introduced
This is a wonderful idea. If enough Tribute threads are started by members then we can make them stickies at the top of the Tomato Talk forum.
Grow Something!
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#13

Post: # 25350Unread post Shule
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:19 pm

Thanks for the comments, everyone! it's great to here people are interested in this.

@root_grow
I'd love some Flaming Burst seeds. I'll PM you.

Yeah, I noticed that, too—Tom Wagner being listed as the breeder when he didn't do the selection for some varieties. It's kind of hard to separate them, though, and it's unclear exactly how much selection went into some of them (like Banana Legs; it sounds like maybe it was the seed selected in that case, rather than some selective breeding, but it's hard to know without more information).

Probably what's going on is people are attributing the varieties to Tom Wagner for the advertising, so the varieties will get more attention, since he's more well-known in most cases.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#14

Post: # 25352Unread post Shule
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:29 pm

When we get things sorted out, maybe we should separate the big list into two lists: those he stabilized himself, and those he started, but others stabilized.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#15

Post: # 25388Unread post root_grow
Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:45 pm

I really like the idea of tribute threads to various breeders.

I also like the idea of separate lists for tomatoes that were mostly his work and tomatoes that came from his crosses but others' work to stabilize those particular varieties. You're right, it's often hard to tell how much Wagner himself was involved in selecting a particular variety, and probably it would be difficult to recover that information in a lot of cases. Even if it wasn't highly skilled selective breeding, those varieties wouldn't be in circulation from Wagner's efforts alone. And I'm sure you're right that it's mostly done for the name recognition in advertising. I just keep thinking of the example set by the Dwarf Tomato Project where those tomatoes carry the full story almost everywhere they're advertised and wish something similar could happen whenever that's the case.

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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#16

Post: # 25400Unread post akgardengirl
Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:47 pm

One that I didn't see on the list is "Summer Cider" which is a good early enough one here in Anchorage, AK. Where is Tom Wagner? Did he pass?
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#17

Post: # 25405Unread post Shule
Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:22 pm

@akgardengirl
Thanks! He's still around, and you can actually talk to him on his Tatermater forum. I'm not sure why he's not doing his store and blog anymore, but his forum isn't new. I think he's on TV, too, but not sure if he's currently active on it or not. Hopefully he'll join us here.

So, he can probably answer questions we might have. I figure it's more of a tribute to do what we can without asking first, though, since he might be pretty busy, and he might be interested to know which varieties we come up with, first, and which ones we don't know about.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#18

Post: # 25480Unread post KathyDC
Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:38 pm

I am growing Perfect Storm this year. I got it I believe in a trade from TV. It's my second time trying to grow it, this year it finally germinated! (The other try was my own fault.)

Happy to share seeds with anyone interested.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#19

Post: # 25555Unread post Shule
Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:21 pm

I've started dividing the lists. So, there's another below the main one. If you know any tomatoes that are in the first list that belong in the second, feel free to chime in! :) Same for if you know others that belong in the second list that aren't in the first list.
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Re: A tribute to Tom Wagner

#20

Post: # 25624Unread post Gardadore
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:08 pm

Didn’t realize Summer Cider was from Tom Wagner as well. I grew that a few years ago and have seeds still. Not sure why I haven’t planted it again. But I have a lot of different Orange tomatoes so it has just been bypassed. Will try it again next year.
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