Mushrooms!

[Moth1992]

Pressure cooker is coming my way!

Pressure COOKER or pressure CANNER? There's a huge difference. You'll likely need the canner if you plan to sterilize things, like grain for spawn, substrate, and PDA for cultures.

Had a small moment of panic while I checked but i can gladly confirm its a canner. Phew!

Now I still dont know what to do with it once it arrives. I dont know if I want to try to innoculate all in one bags to reduce steps were things can go wrong or try to make grain spawn to bulk so I can use reusable containers and not produce a bunch of plastic waste.

All i know is i keep throwing money at this hobby....

[MissS]

I am watching and learning from this thread. My daughter and I would like to see how it all works and then try growing some. Thanks for the inspiration.

[worth1]

@Moth1992
What kind and or brand of pressure canner did you get?

[Moth1992]

@Moth1992
What kind and or brand of pressure canner did you get?

Its a presto 23quart, suposed to get to the adequate pressure for sterilizing right?

[worth1]

@Moth1992
What kind and or brand of pressure canner did you get?

Its a presto 23quart, suposed to get to the adequate pressure for sterilizing right?

It's not pressure It's temperature.
If you are at a high altitude the pressure will be there but not the temperature.
Here is an altitude chart.
Not for sure just how sterile you want to get.
Some people say that putting jars in boiling water sterilizes them when actually it doesn't.
Your presto has a guage that releases at 15 psi.

20221210_185613.jpg

[GoDawgs]

Some people say that putting jars in boiling water sterilizes them when actually it doesn't.

From the National Center For Home Food Preservation:

Sterilization of Empty Jars

All jams, jellies, and pickled products processed less than 10 minutes should be filled into sterile empty jars. To sterilize empty jars, put them right side up on the rack in a boiling-water canner. Fill the canner and jars with hot (not boiling) water to 1 inch above the tops of the jars. Boil 10 minutes at altitudes of less than 1,000 ft. At higher elevations, boil 1 additional minute for each additional 1,000 ft. elevation. Remove and drain hot sterilized jars one at a time. Save the hot water for processing filled jars. Fill jars with food, add lids, and tighten screw bands.

Empty jars used for vegetables, meats, and fruits to be processed in a pressure canner need not be presterilized. It is also unnecessary to presterilize jars for fruits, tomatoes, and pickled or fermented foods that will be processed 10 minutes or longer in a boiling-water canner.

https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_01/sterile_jars.html

[worth1]

Some people say that putting jars in boiling water sterilizes them when actually it doesn't.

From the National Center For Home Food Preservation:

Sterilization of Empty Jars

All jams, jellies, and pickled products processed less than 10 minutes should be filled into sterile empty jars. To sterilize empty jars, put them right side up on the rack in a boiling-water canner. Fill the canner and jars with hot (not boiling) water to 1 inch above the tops of the jars. Boil 10 minutes at altitudes of less than 1,000 ft. At higher elevations, boil 1 additional minute for each additional 1,000 ft. elevation. Remove and drain hot sterilized jars one at a time. Save the hot water for processing filled jars. Fill jars with food, add lids, and tighten screw bands.

Empty jars used for vegetables, meats, and fruits to be processed in a pressure canner need not be presterilized. It is also unnecessary to presterilize jars for fruits, tomatoes, and pickled or fermented foods that will be processed 10 minutes or longer in a boiling-water canner.

https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_01/sterile_jars.html

Yeah I know what they say but that's not actually sterilizing anything.
It's a miss use of words.
I've been through this before on the other forum.
The all American canning company actually makes a sterilizer that will go up to higher pressures by just a little.
It is actually the same lid casting as the canner but some parts are replaced with others and some casting bosses aren't used.
I think they'll run up to over 20 psi.
These are called wet steam autoclaves for medical use.
Because boiling water won't kill all microbes.
At least not at sea level at 14.7 psi atmospheric pressure where water boils at 112F.
Every 500 feet elevation boiling point drops about 1 degrees F.
7500 feet boiling point is 198F.
I haven't read through all the posts to know exactly why sterilizing is needed but I'm assuming it's to kill unwanted spores.

Just remember the National Center For Home Food Preservation has to put everything out to the lowest common denominator.

[Whwoz]

Some people say that putting jars in boiling water sterilizes them when actually it doesn't.

From the National Center For Home Food Preservation:

Sterilization of Empty Jars

All jams, jellies, and pickled products processed less than 10 minutes should be filled into sterile empty jars. To sterilize empty jars, put them right side up on the rack in a boiling-water canner. Fill the canner and jars with hot (not boiling) water to 1 inch above the tops of the jars. Boil 10 minutes at altitudes of less than 1,000 ft. At higher elevations, boil 1 additional minute for each additional 1,000 ft. elevation. Remove and drain hot sterilized jars one at a time. Save the hot water for processing filled jars. Fill jars with food, add lids, and tighten screw bands.

Empty jars used for vegetables, meats, and fruits to be processed in a pressure canner need not be presterilized. It is also unnecessary to presterilize jars for fruits, tomatoes, and pickled or fermented foods that will be processed 10 minutes or longer in a boiling-water canner.

https://nchfp.uga.edu/how/can_01/sterile_jars.html

What this actually refers to is a condition called Commercial Sterility. As @worth1 mentions it is not a true state of sterility but a condition where there are not viable spoilage or pathogenic cells. It does not kill all cells and most spores. The term came about from the large scale use of cans and jars commercially where the manufacturing process uses temperatures high enough to sterilize the glassware or metal, but there is a possibility of contamination during transport or storage of the cans/jars. Easy enough to replicate at home, unlike true sterilization, which for dry glass/metalware is heating to 180C/355F for 2hours or wet 121C/250 for 15 minutes at sea level (by "wet" I mean steam in a pressure cooker). Commercial sterility is NOT suitable for medical equipment.

[Moth1992]

@Moth1992
What kind and or brand of pressure canner did you get?

Its a presto 23quart, suposed to get to the adequate pressure for sterilizing right?

It's not pressure It's temperature.
If you are at a high altitude the pressure will be there but not the temperature.
Here is an altitude chart.
Not for sure just how sterile you want to get.
Some people say that putting jars in boiling water sterilizes them when actually it doesn't.
Your presto has a guage that releases at 15 psi.
20221210_185613.jpg

Im too tired to think, my brain is mush, but as far as whats left of my brain can tell the temperature of boiling water depends entirely on pressure, you cant have one and not the other.

Why does the pressure outside of the pot matter? No matter the altitude the boiling temperature of the water inside the pot will be for the pressure inside the pot?

Nevermind, its probably because the release valve is for 15psi relative pressure not absolute pressure, so it needs to be compensated for the fact that its not actual 15psi.

I think there is some common rules about how long to sterilize? I think its like 1.5 or 2hours at 15psi.

Sorry about my ramblings. Is it friday yet?

[worth1]

@Moth1992
No the release weight guage valve operates on the surface area the steam or pressure pushes against.
The larger the surface area the less pressure it takes to push the weight up.
At any given weight.
This surface area is inside the hole the vent pipe goes into.
This is why you can rotate the weight guage on the all American canner to get different pressures to release steam.
5 10 and 15.
15 having the smallest surface area.

The pressure inside the canner starts at a lower temperature at higher altitudes so when it gets to 15 psi the temperature is lower.
Think of starting a measurement at one and not zero to get to 10.
You will end up at 9 inches true measurement but the measuring tape will read 10.
Thus one of the reasons for zero in math.
Now think of that temperature inside starting to boil at a lower temperature thusly causing the guage needle to move.
You will end up at 15 psi sooner temperature wise.
This is why you can set the heat to a low setting and maintain a certain pressure without releasing steam.
The pressure inside gets to the amount that the liquid stops boiling and creating more pressure.
My 100 year old pressure canner can do this because the release valve is adjustable.
I've also made my own weight guages and vent tubes for these old canners.
In reality a pressure canner would be more accurate and easier to deal with if it had an internal temperature guage.
Something I've had on the back burner but have yet to do.
Remember knowledge means power.

[JayneR13]

Had a small moment of panic while I checked but i can gladly confirm its a canner. Phew!

Now I still dont know what to do with it once it arrives. I dont know if I want to try to innoculate all in one bags to reduce steps were things can go wrong or try to make grain spawn to bulk so I can use reusable containers and not produce a bunch of plastic waste.

All i know is i keep throwing money at this hobby....

I hear that! I've thrown some coin into it myself and tossed more contaminated substrate than I care to think about. It's quite possible, nay all too common, to do everything right and still get mold. Sad but true.

As for making bags vs. spawn jars: we use different things for different purposes. Spawn jars can be used to inoculate bags, which can also be inoculated via liquid culture. Spawn is also useful to inoculate monotubs, straw (for the species that prefer it), and outside beds. I would consider what you're trying to accomplish, then decide. One good thing about inoculation from grain spawn is that one quart of spawn can inoculate several bags and the next generation of grain for more spawn. You'll need the bags to induce fruiting. That won't happen well in a jar in most cases.

The pressure canner is used to sterilize. Bags, jars of grain, and agar/broth media for liquid culture. Be sure to put some jar rings in the bottom so your bags don't directly touch the bottom of the canner or the bags might melt. Use the same rings because they'll become gross and yes, the water will become gross. Fold the bags so the filter doesn't touch the water and fill about halfway up the bags since you'll be sterilizing for 2.5 hours. Put a heavy plate on top or the bag might expand well enough to block the pressure release valve. And if you don't already have a still air box, you'll need one. These can be made if you're a DIY type. They can be purchased but shipping will be pricey so try to buy close to home. It's basically a repurposed tote that will help create a clean(er) area to work in. Google the term, you'll see.

Remember, your mycelia will die if you inoculate first and then sterilize. Sterilize, then leave the bags in your canner overnight to cool down. Inoculate then next day. Temps around 70F are good for the fungi.

[JayneR13]

PS, I'm not sure what the rules are for selling things but I do have an online basics course for sale. Interested parties are welcome to PM me for the link.

[JayneR13]

Today's harvest, and a lesson in buying from Ebay sellers. I don't care what the syringe said, this is not an oyster mushroom. It's a lion's mane variety, I think coral tooth. Not coral oyster. Caveat emptor.

coral tooth.jpg

[JayneR13]

I have two lion's mane and one white elm oyster in their third flush. Yay! This is why I clean my Martha tent more often than I clean my house. It's amazing how quickly mold can set in. Mushrooms don't compete well. Think of them as the weak kid on the playground that the bullies latch on to.

third flush 1.jpg

third flush 2.jpg

[JayneR13]

It's been an interesting time in the mushroom world! These subzero temperatures have made it a challenge to keep my Martha tent in a good temperature range for colonization. I purchased a small greenhouse heater that works quite well, the only problem being that the humidity in the tent drops like a rock while it's on. Low humidity can cause developing fruits to abort. This is bad. So I've been working on finding a balance between the two factors. If I can find a good balance I may be able to put the heater on a timer, as the duct fan is. The humidifier is also attached to a controller, of course. Turning the output up a bit has helped. A water bottle and some insulation have also helped. More insulation wouldn't be a bad thing as the tent tends to be ambient room temperature or so.

Martha tent.jpg

The portobello in my monotub seem to be pinning! From what I've read, portobello isn't cased as some species are. The results are also lending themselves to the hypothesis that oven sterilization simply does not do the job it needs to do in terms of keeping mold out of the substrate. Pasteurization is very messy but appears to be more effective.

IMG_0921.jpg

Lastly, at least for today, the product of much labor: 48 oz of double extraction lion's mane tincture. That's approximately $730 retail, and using a retail block price as a reference point, it cost me about $32 to make. Trendy costs. Home made is better and I know what went into my jars.

lion's mane tincture copy.jpg

How are your mushroom growing operations going? I'd love to see!

[Moth1992]

Ive ordered some unicorn bags to try them out. I still havent ventured into using the pressure canner. But its raining all week so im going to play around with mushrooms.

[MissTee]

We started a shiitake kit a couple days after Christmas. (First time growing mushrooms.)

Only 3 mushrooms have grown off the top of the block so far. Today I noticed blue mold on the block— does it need to be thrown out?

The directions say it could possibly grow more 2 to 4 flushes of mushrooms.

If it is done (as I expect it may be), I am not impressed with having paid $25 for 3 shrooms.

5B901F1B-BAF0-4F84-B6D8-9D6B601102D7.jpeg

[Moth1992]

Just made my first bags and sterilized them in the canner.

Lessons learnt:
- Dont use rolled oats just because you had a box of expired ones sitting around. Oats good but oatmeal bad. This is not going to work out. Oh well, this is a practice run I guess.

Successes
- Pressure canner did not explode and it was not too difficult to figure out the correct heat setting. Really happy about that.

I will try inoculating them tomorrow in my bathroom to practice the whole still air box, etc etc.

[JayneR13]

We started a shiitake kit a couple days after Christmas. (First time growing mushrooms.)

Only 3 mushrooms have grown off the top of the block so far. Today I noticed blue mold on the block— does it need to be thrown out?

The directions say it could possibly grow more 2 to 4 flushes of mushrooms.

If it is done (as I expect it may be), I am not impressed with having paid $25 for 3 shrooms.5B901F1B-BAF0-4F84-B6D8-9D6B601102D7.jpeg

That seems strange that only three mushrooms have grown in two weeks! I don't blame you for being unimpressed. Do you see other spots pinning? I can't see the mold in your picture but the shrooms do look kind of strange. Not quite healthy, or at best odd. You can try to cut the blue mold from the block and spritz carefully with some isopropyl. Is the growth blue green or straight blue? If the former, you may have a mold problem and once mold takes hold it's nearly impossible to get rid of. If merely blue, you may have a mycelia bruising problem. According to what I've read, blue comes from harvesting, touching, or drying out of the cake. You might consider reaching out to the supplier. At the very least they might replace the block for you. If you'd like to try a different supplier, may I suggest North Spore or Field and Forest Products. I've always had good results from their blocks.

How are you growing your block? Is it in a Martha tent or under a humidity tent? If the latter, you may have to mist more than you are. Shrooms require a fairly high humidity in order to fruit, but it's a careful balance to maintain. Not enough humidity and the block won't fruit. Too much and you'll get green mold. Once green mold establishes it takes serious bleach of the entire area to get rid of! I keep a PDA plate on one of the shelves in my tent so I know if mold is endemic to the environment, in which case it's time to bleach clean the entire tent. If you're using a plastic humidity dome, you might consider wiping the inside of that with bleach. Here are a couple of references for your perusal:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfl ... /fpart/all

https://fungiacademy.com/mushroom-conta ... hat-to-do/

[worth1]

I'm not impressed with spending time labor and money on a tomato plant only to get a small handful of tomatoes.
And it's the weathers and plant varieties fault not mine.