Pruning to Double Leader

[Setec Astronomy]

For those of you that do this--and I finally learned how to do this a couple of years ago from a University of Arkansas Agricultural Extension video and from a Cornell "pruning to the strong Y" paper--to find the first flower cluster, and go down the next sucker, and that becomes the second leader. What happens if the first flower cluster fails?

I had a number of seedlings that already had flowers forming when I planted them out, but then it was cold, then I used my new sprayer and may have blasted some flowers off, then we had a heat wave, and I'm finding that many of the plants didn't set any fruit on the first flower cluster, and in some cases, not even the second. For pruning purposes, do I still consider a failed flower cluster to be my guide to where I create the "strong Y"?

[JRinPA]

Completely failed first cluster? I don't think I have seen that since I have been single/double stemming. Did it still form the co-dominant leader? You will see it pretty plainly, it is generally tough to tell which leader is the true original and which one is the sucker without looking at the flower truss. The sucker is often bigger than the stem. If you don't see this, I'd say wait for the next cluster.

Funny to think someone wrote a paper about it though! It is like when a tree trunk splits from a single strong trunk with branches, to two co-dominant trunks. Bad for trees, good for tomatoes.

[Setec Astronomy]

Funny to think someone wrote a paper about it though!

I'll take a picture in the morning, but the "paper" was a study about how to agriculturally get the largest crop out of high tunnel cherry tomatoes:

https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/blogs.cor ... 5npesf.pdf

[bower]

It's very classic tomato structure to have that big second leader springing from the node below the first cluster. I would still take that one for your second leader, regardless of fruit losses, unless for some reason there is no sucker there.
The reason I wouldn't wait to select a second leader higher up, is that every sucker/leader will have the same number of leaves before the first flower/fruit cluster, usually the same as the main stem number before the first cluster. So you will generally have around 7 or more leaves before any fruit, vs the main stem which if indeterminate, will have three leaves between clusters like clockwork.
In other words, the higher the leader you select, the higher up your first cluster will be on that stem. That is followed by the usual 3 leaf pattern between clusters, but it takes a leg before it gets started.

[Setec Astronomy]

It's very classic tomato structure...

That was very helpful. Here's a picture of my Raya Rey, it's got a "false" cluster (as discussed in another thread a couple months ago) at the bottom of the picture, then a "real" one further up on the main stem. So on this one clearly that stem in the left foreground should be my second leader, rather than the one below the more developed flower cluster.

IMG_2724.JPG

So with that logic (and your advice), I should be doing the same thing on my other plants where the first flower cluster was damaged and dropped flowers either due to temperature or mechanical damage (wind, my new sprayer), not going up to the next cluster. Here's a picture of my Benvento, which flowered inside, but after plant-out didn't set any fruit on that cluster:

IMG_2719.JPG

I grow mostly cherries, with a few larger-fruited varieties, so I generally do a double leader. The only place I really get screwed up is with the semi-determinates (this year I have Maglia Rosa, Marzano Fire, and Taste Patio) which I can never decide whether to let bush out or try to limit the leaders, usually by the time I decide to limit the leaders they are already a bush, and then they get all diseased, hence why I'm trying to stay on top of my antifungal sprays this year.

[bower]

Yeah! Those are big honkin leaders
I often keep more than two, and if so that second one would double duty providing support to the cluster of fruit above it.
Don't feel too badly about losing the first cluster - it happens. We hate to see them drop, especially the earliest flowers for earliest fruit. But often the biggest stress is on that one. Hope you get lots of fruit, regardless.

[Setec Astronomy]

Yeah! Those are big honkin leaders

I think a lot of that was the macro setting on my camera...actually my stoutest plant is a Pink Berkeley Tie Dye, that looks like a tree.

Hope you get lots of fruit, regardless.

Thank you, things are looking much better than last year, I just seem to be getting poor fruit set on many plants. I planted so late last year maybe I just don't remember how things go when you plant at normal time.

[mama_lor]

I think the reasoning for that sucker under the first flower is that the two leaders will grow quite similar in vigor, any other sucker will have a more reduced vigor (although those under each flower cluster will be quite strong). The fact that the flowers are setting or not is not important. I have occasionally had weak first clusters, it's a lack of sun or poor nutrition due to cold soil, etc. Yours are particularly weak though.

[Setec Astronomy]

I have occasionally had weak first clusters, it's a lack of sun or poor nutrition due to cold soil, etc. Yours are particularly weak though.

Well, I'll have to attribute that to a number of the plants developing flowers while still under the grow lights, and the cold weather that persisted after I first planted out.

[Setec Astronomy]

Maybe I have more problems than I thought I did--pollinator-problems-t3545.html